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Epic Fail in advertising EVE online as a game.

First post
Author
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#21 - 2016-05-13 01:11:37 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
May Arethusa wrote:
.we'd have a momument on the frickin' moon instead of in Iceland.



Isn't the moon closer?








I hear the weather is better at least.
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
Solyaris Chtonium
#22 - 2016-05-13 01:27:49 UTC
Juicy Aivo wrote:
Hey folks, this has been bothering me for a while. It has been 9 years and 6 months since i had first logged onto TQ. It was amazing, so many 24k players online at the peak EU TZ. However since then things gone from bad to worse for EVE online in making new players because after all these years at the very same hour (15;30 12/05/2016) it is the same 24k players online.

Just 1 thing, me same as many others now has more than 1 acc. Which makes significant loss of actual players/bodies not ALTs. Where did you (EVE sales department guys) go WRONG with trying to attract more bodies into the game??? I know there will be hates of this post but consider this, if eve online had 500k players they could REDUCE price per month by 5x or 10x. However they chose to do NOTHING and makes us all pay every month the same amount of money as you were buying a new game every month or even more. This even makes me to consider leave this game because they are ripping us off!


...And you think those 24k players 9 years ago are the exact same players you see today? you don't think that half those players has unsubbed, and the other half have joined the game since then?
Hawke Frost
#23 - 2016-05-13 01:45:42 UTC
There's this little thing called inflation. We're completely fine with cars, food, your starbucks coffee, life itself, become way more expensive over the past 12 years. But somehow MMO's are not allowed to adjust for inflation, because :stupid uninformed selfish reasons:.
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#24 - 2016-05-13 02:51:51 UTC
Perhaps its because EVE sells itself as a PVP game, surprisingly not everyone wants to come home from a hard days work and have to put up with some of the "characters" in EVE. I know someone who spends more on farmville that I do on eve Shocked so its not money thing in many cases.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#25 - 2016-05-13 05:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sustrai Aditua
LOL! What was the subject? (construct construct construct - discuss discuss discuss)

If you don't know what EVE is, you're in some digital backwater. EVE was even on the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather for an in-game event once. Not only can you Google that still, it's an internet historical event.

EVE has a reputation as well; well-deserved in some cases; rather exaggerated in others.

Even the figures will show you EVE isn't lagging behind any game in the trial period being used. The thing about EVE is, its population plays a game only roughly 20% of the internet gaming population enjoys. It's a conscious choice. It would be defended as one defends a religion if challenged.

You are what you are. If you want those who don't play EVE to play it, then the game has to be changed to appeal those people, and this would naturally really ****-off the people who like it just fine the way it is.

Look at it like wearing a Speed-O to the beach. Some people should. Others...please, don't. Cool

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2016-05-13 05:44:05 UTC
What makes you think they would lower the price if they had more people playing EVE? I don't think that would happen at all.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#27 - 2016-05-13 06:50:48 UTC
The issue here is simply what I touched upon before, to play this game to not be an easy kill you have to have two accounts, this means that many casual players give away easy kills because they don't, which means that they get disillusioned faster. I will not play Eve with a single account, so when I go and play another game I de-sub as I have said that €30 is my limit per month on MMO's.

I am not going to grind for plex and the like because I play a game and get the assets in game not to use that to pay for an account. In my opinion CCP would be better off doing a discount price for a second account which is linked to the main account which will deal with another issue with Eve. I think that would gain and retain a lot more casual players.

The fun with Eve is that it is deep and because it is full of entitled scum bags who use some mechanics very well to prey on others it is difficult, this means you have to have a mindset that is not daunted by a challenge, so for me it is the deepness of the game, the difficulty in some areas and the sheer nastiness of many of the players that keeps me interested, but most people find the last part a major put off.

So for me its a way of testing myself in a game which has the capacity to get under your skin, which is why I also play the forum game too and why I am very keen to put forward my viewpoint.

The key thing about this game is that it is a challenge, but sometimes CCP does not get that balance right and in doing so they have lost a lot of players. There are other games out there, but so far none are as deep of have the level of engagement, Star Citizen may do that, I have a friend in the PU testing and its looking good so far.

CCP recently made Capital game play awesome, the carriers now are a joy to play with, who ever designed that is very very good, what amused me was seeing the entitled rage by small gang PvP players who can no longer kill carriers with a destroyer swarm for no loss, oh the indignity of it, seeing such whining made me joyful... and that is Eve...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Darth Destroyer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2016-05-13 07:36:18 UTC
Starting EVE is recently being a fail for new players, because of the tutorial and the tutorial missions. They make 1-2 mission about mining, exploration, etc, and next to that, they usually not knowing what menu-windows to use, what is what on the UI, etc. After they struggle themselves over with this whole tutorial procedure, they find themselves alone with no goals, no quests.

To solve this problem they should be introduced to EVE in a different way from the time of making their character. There should be a long RPG-like storyline they can make, mixed with some comic-book pictures stuff, introducing different menus, giving them much more immersive missions, much more knowledge, that lead them more deeply into the universe of EVE. The goal is, that after this long introduction, they should have make some own goals and they have the ability to start playing alone with confidence.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2016-05-13 08:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Chewytowel Haklar
Darth Destroyer wrote:


To solve this problem they should be introduced to EVE in a different way from the time of making their character. There should be a long RPG-like storyline they can make, mixed with some comic-book pictures stuff, introducing different menus, giving them much more immersive missions, much more knowledge, that lead them more deeply into the universe of EVE. The goal is, that after this long introduction, they should have make some own goals and they have the ability to start playing alone with confidence
.


Today children we venture into the magical land of Overview and fight the terrible enemy within known as default settings. We must first gain the favor of our powerful friend the Tab, who can help us hack overview's settings and forge ahead to defeat its enemies. Once we do this we can control their mystical powers known as bracket settings. First, let us make a new friend called Warp To, so everyone go ahead and click on that little cute plus sign right next to the first tab in the land of Overview...
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-05-13 08:36:52 UTC
John Hand wrote:
This is a game where having 2 or more toons is REQUIRED, not a want but a requirement to succeed at this game. If the sub was $5 a month, it would be FAR easier pill to swallow for someone who has 3 or even 10 toons.


LOL
LOLOLOLOL
Varathius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-05-13 09:16:53 UTC
People talk as if Eve is one of the only few games out there since its creation...

Guess what. WOT comes along, people suddenly like that more and leave. Same applies for many other games, thus I would love to see some valid research in the rate of population growth, thus more gamers vs all the online games that have been introduced during all this time.

Anyway, I think it is funny how CCP often plans something that has a complete different outcome, because this is how a real sandbox works CCP. Regarding the reduced player count, I actually think it would stay more stable if CCP would let things be a bit more, and stop make constant abrupt changes that completely deviate from their original goals, but then again, at the end it is ultimately about adaptation, and this game requires a lot of it, so the many abrupt changes recently, I believe, caused many of the people that took a long break, not to be able to get a hang of it anymore and they just left for good. However, CCP can be lucky it has a community that is really large and devoted to use out of CCP resources to promote this game and get people to join.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#32 - 2016-05-13 10:34:09 UTC
Why would you advertise EVE Online as a game? That would be false advertising! EVE Online is a job.
Tristan Agion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2016-05-13 11:15:37 UTC
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
The thing about EVE is, its population plays a game only roughly 20% of the internet gaming population enjoys.

If 20% of the internet gaming population was subscribed to EVE, CCP would be building their new HQ in solid platinum right now.

EVE as game is quite difficult for new players. In response, CCP has fabricated an utter mess of incoherent ... stuff. I mean, the number one tip for new players is to just ignore the "opportunities" and work with the career agents... (not that those missions are bug/problem free either).

CCP is over-relying on the player community to pick up their incredible slack as far as newbies go. From the the rookie chat channel to newbie corps, most of the work in converting a trial account into a subscription is down to the directed efforts by other players.

And that's just no good. Not because those players are not doing a good job, to the contrary, they are doing a great job and are keeping EVE alive. Rather because people entering a new game - in particular a game famous for being harsh and full of backstabbing - tend to try stuff out on their own a lot. Many people will drop out before they get to any proper help from other players.

That a game this old does not have a decent "tutorial" and a comprehensive, scripted "newbie phase" is just plain risible. And yes, such a system would need constant updating. So what? Frankly, there should be a team working on this 24/7 anyway.

There is CCP Ghost now, so maybe this will get fixed. Maybe. Frankly, his presentation at Fanfest didn't exactly inspire confidence in me. But everybody deserves a chance and I have been wrong in judging people many times before...
Brown Pathfinder
Black Spot on Parchment
#34 - 2016-05-13 12:14:29 UTC
Something i learned after a few years of life is that something that is my cup of tea isnt always everyone elses cup of tea.
I think there is currently in a surge in intrested in space and space games currently but its not always been the case.
Also eve is hardcore or semi hardcore at best, judging from what i heard on the fanfest talks this year alot of people try eve.
So i dont think they are doing anything wrong with marketing the game, its just that eve isn't for everyone Smile
Also I wish sometimes sub would be cheaper, but if it was cheaper ccp would crash within a few years and its a frightening idea for now. P
Sometimes a slow growth is better than a over accelerated growth that is unsustainable in the long run.
Merchaltofme
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-05-13 12:43:46 UTC
Take it from me, most MMORPG players have heard of EVE (And even tried it). But EVE is a brutal game. It takes a special player to enjoy it. Most people nowadays are all about that instant gratification which EVE does not provide.

These types of people are more suited for themeparks and MOBA's , which is why those types of games have more players.


EVE is niche, and thats why the playerbase will remain relativelythe same for years and years. Those of us that find this type of game fun have no where else to go even if we wanted to leave.

There are only a handful of games with full loot (most of which restrict it to very certain circumstances) and all except Runescape have populations less then 1000.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#36 - 2016-05-13 13:35:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
I used to 'blame' poor advertising too. And the "NPE".

But I( think the fact is this: EVE is so niche no amount of proper advertising or gameplay training is going to make a difference. i visit "Massively OP" a lot, and last week I noticed an article that was about a 'themepark' style player who just didn't get all the hype about sandbox games.

A comment from one of the Massively OP staff guys really hit the nail on the head IMO, he said:
Quote:
But have you seen the stats on how many people stop playing EVE within the first couple hours? That massive conglomeration of systems and numbers and opportunities turns people off.It’s like writing your own novel instead of just sitting down and reading one. I like writing, sure – but sometimes I just stare at my screen, not sure where to take a character, or how to finish a scene. Then I close my laptop and go read something instead.


I think he's right on the money. Many many people like reading novels (other people's work) rather than just writing their own. It's why many more people will watch a movie or a play rather than write one, it's why soo many more people will play Call of Duty rather than join the Army (well, the dying part figures in there too lol). Most people will work for (other people's) businesses, most will never start/run one.

So CCP spends all this time on advertising (which is always misleading) and that turns off new players who were expecting epicness on the 1st day. And they spend all of this time on the NPE which is fine until it ends after which point the new player doesn't know what to do. Because like most people (and especially most gamers) he/she needs already existing structures in order to progress. EVE isn't formless (there are rules, and necessities like generating isk), but it's 'structure' is otherwise extremely limited.



TL;DR Advertising and some form of NPE is fine, but the core issue is that EVE (the Turbo-Nerd's Valhalla) just isn't something most human beings would enjoy, so after a certain point putting more time and resources into advertising is pointless.
Tigh Edatosmi
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#37 - 2016-05-13 14:52:30 UTC
Juicy Aivo wrote:
Hey folks, this has been bothering me for a while. It has been 9 years and 6 months since i had first logged onto TQ. It was amazing, so many 24k players online at the peak EU TZ. However since then things gone from bad to worse for EVE online in making new players because after all these years at the very same hour (15;30 12/05/2016) it is the same 24k players online.

Just 1 thing, me same as many others now has more than 1 acc. Which makes significant loss of actual players/bodies not ALTs. Where did you (EVE sales department guys) go WRONG with trying to attract more bodies into the game??? I know there will be hates of this post but consider this, if eve online had 500k players they could REDUCE price per month by 5x or 10x. However they chose to do NOTHING and makes us all pay every month the same amount of money as you were buying a new game every month or even more. This even makes me to consider leave this game because they are ripping us off!



I hope this will be constructive.

My profile: I started playing in Jan 2013, played for about 9 months, then quit due to focusing on RL stuff. I came back because "why not" in Jan of this year.

Starting out in the game the first time was hard. You know why I stayed? I joined a random corp that asked me, then made friends, found a better corp, and played because of connections I made to players in game.

This time around, I came back, all the friends I made are gone, so I joined a new corp. New friends, new connections, then joined PH. For all that one can say about the Horde, it is friendly, it is helpful, and it is fun.

Again, I continue to play because of the people in the game.

New players sign up and sign in all the time. CCP tells us that half quit quickly due to the "learning curve". But, this game is a sandbox. Why is it never spoken about what the responsibility is as established players to spend time bringing in and retaining new players ourselves? Why does CCP have to build all these New Player "stuff" to teach up and retain new players? If it truly is a sandbox, maybe instead of complaining how new players don't seem to come, you spend some of your own time in new player channels helping players out and keeping them coming back. Provide some structure to new players, made from the very sand in this sandbox, and build the mechanisms that keep new players yourself.


"Oh, well, why should I do CCP's job for them?" - Look, if you see a problem, and you don't like the outcome, and look around at everyone else to solve it, then you are the problem. To paraphrase Ghandi: "Be the change you want to see in Eve".

Note, I do not mean this personally. I also am assuming that the OP is only complaining, and is not taking some active role to help new players. If you are in fact actively helping new players, amazing, keep it up!

Ka Plaa
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-05-13 15:36:31 UTC
"EVE: the Turbo-Nerd's Valhalla" Big smile true Even if that's not you, you know it's true...


The conundrum is that EvE is niche and to remain EvE it can't be all things to huge numbers of the gaming public, isn't it?. I don't mind it staying niche, but even if it does change to appeal to a wider market, it will still be far superior to other MMOs. Pretty good run for a game so far regardless of what happens to it in future.






Chinwhe
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2016-05-13 16:29:24 UTC
This game isn’t for everyone, and that’s what has enabled it to survive as long as it has. A loyal following of players who enjoy the unique aspects of EVE will keep it going well into the foreseeable future. Other games have tried to come close, but each has failed in one way or another.


CCP has done a great job improving the game through the years, and I still hold out hope that they add some kind of out-of-capsule gameplay (i.e. walking in stations). I do agree that there *could* be more efforts made to market this game to people that might not have heard of it or tried it, and I know a good number of people that simply can’t get past the idea that 99% of the gameplay is done “as a ship”.


Perhaps simply adding on-foot gameplay of some sort might help bridge the gap. Of the gamers I’ve gotten to try EVE (but didn’t stay due to not being able to interact with others outside of a ship) ALL of them LOVED the idea of nowhere being truly safe, and the truly massive scale of the game with everyone being in the same instance/server. They also couldn’t stop talking about how awesome the character creation was, and how unfortunate that it’s just being used to create a portrait (or at best to walk around by yourself in a station…)

Either way, CCP keep up the good work!
Dani Gallar
Doomheim
#40 - 2016-05-13 17:05:23 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
John Hand wrote:
This is a game where having 2 or more toons is REQUIRED, not a want but a requirement to succeed at this game. If the sub was $5 a month, it would be FAR easier pill to swallow for someone who has 3 or even 10 toons.


LOL
LOLOLOLOL


Couldn´t agree more ... now given there are a few career choices where having scout alts helps alot but I don´t think it's REQUIRED for any career path. I do primarily exploration and wouldn't consider subbing for another account both for the cost (25 €/month is quite steep) and because of my limited capacity for multitasking.