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Small and personal citadel

Author
Jenni Concarnadine
SYNDIC Unlimited
#21 - 2016-05-08 07:43:23 UTC
+1 to all the above.

I'm (almost) sure that a Small Citadel was in the original draft of Citadels -- though given the level of interest in the XL edition, I can understand why it perhaps got back-burnered.

To my mind the key issues with saying "an M will do what you want" is
1) the price -- many solo players won't have 700m+ on hand, especially when there will be gankers out to score kill-mails
2) the time commitment to erect/demolish the thing -- a S Citadel wants to be a quickly-deployed item, and should be easy(-er) to remove, so that when Someone Large says you're encroaching on their Space, you can pack up and move on without requiring them to blow you up
3) it just isn't snuggly enough -- there is a definite scope for a small and inoffensive structure with some-but-not-too-much secondary functions (fitting service, office/depot, possibly a lab), to act as a mediation between a starbase and living out of an Orca (which you then have to abandon to fate if you want to fly anything away from it)
Iain Cariaba
#22 - 2016-05-08 10:09:16 UTC
Jenni Concarnadine wrote:
1) the price -- many solo players won't have 700m+ on hand, especially when there will be gankers out to score kill-mails
2) the time commitment to erect/demolish the thing -- a S Citadel wants to be a quickly-deployed item, and should be easy(-er) to remove, so that when Someone Large says you're encroaching on their Space, you can pack up and move on without requiring them to blow you up
3) it just isn't snuggly enough -- there is a definite scope for a small and inoffensive structure with some-but-not-too-much secondary functions (fitting service, office/depot, possibly a lab), to act as a mediation between a starbase and living out of an Orca (which you then have to abandon to fate if you want to fly anything away from it)

Honestly, even as a solo player with a single account, 700m isn't a hard goal to reach. This is even more true in areas where you would be looking at needing a citadel vs using an available station to dock up.

Get a mobile depot, a couple secure cargo containers, a t2 industrial, and some skills at making safe spots outside d-scan range of celestials. You can live quite comfortably and safely in even hostile space with this combination.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#23 - 2016-05-08 10:21:14 UTC
What you're looking for is the industrial array, it's a true small citadel (just not about defenses as much) actually, the astrahus being a medium-sized one.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Imustbecomfused
Illicit Expo
#24 - 2016-05-13 04:55:06 UTC
we do need something for nomadic lifestyle, needs to store a few battleships, orca, haulers, ...

use of rolling battleships, hics, orcas, maruarders... etc..

shields and armor, easy and cheap, and quick to deploy. needs to fit in a transport fleet hanger. possibly a large mobile depot, liek a garage... lol has repair and fitting, ?

a small citadel would be great.
They can have one for defensive and offensive nad one for more industrial ... providing either exploration or pvpers more support to their gameplay.

who knows
Aaron Raus
Diving club
#25 - 2016-05-20 08:37:52 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
What you're looking for is the industrial array, it's a true small citadel (just not about defenses as much)


Only if it does not require 24 hours to anchor and 7 days to unanchor.
Fat Buddah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-05-20 09:38:45 UTC
We got mobile depot.
We can store stuff, refit a repper and rep, etc
Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2016-05-20 09:40:50 UTC
Aaron Raus wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
What you're looking for is the industrial array, it's a true small citadel (just not about defenses as much)


Only if it does not require 24 hours to anchor and 7 days to unanchor.



why not? afraid of forward thinking and commitment?
Dictateur Imperator
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2016-05-20 10:47:50 UTC
Aaron Raus wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
What you're looking for is the industrial array, it's a true small citadel (just not about defenses as much)


Only if it does not require 24 hours to anchor and 7 days to unanchor.


Yes and ? It avoid to deploy just for few minutes/hours. If you are alone you must take this risk, EVE is an MMO, if you don't trust other people to play with it, paid the price.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#29 - 2016-05-21 23:04:58 UTC
So no to this idea I don't want my alliance getting war decced because some random guy put one where they shouldn't
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#30 - 2016-05-22 21:47:45 UTC
Kyra Lee wrote:
After reading through this thread and the one in GD that I think spawned it I think we can come up with something that works.

Small citadel - around 300mil to build and be 3000 M3 in size
It could be built using only minerals and PI
Slot layout 3H, 3M, 2L, 3 Service, 3 Rigs
PWG, CPU, and Cap would be scaled down from the other sizes so I don't have hard numbers for those. Service modules would require fuel bocks to run but shouldnt require that huge amount of blocks to start up. Maybe that cost could be added into the hourly recurring fuel cost.
The base citadel would function like its bigger versions as far as tethering, docking permissions, fitting, and repair of ships and modules
Storage would be limited to 50k per character for non ship items and 400k M3 ship maintenance bay per character
There would be no limit to the number of characters able to dock and use this citadel
There would be no corp hangers or office rentals and no option to fit the market service module
This would be a personal deployable like the MTU and mobile depot but could be configured to use corp/alliance standings and such if desired.

This structure would be always vulnerable to attack but would enter a short reinforcement timer once the structure was breached. I would say no more than 24 hours. This could be based on a vulnerability window like the POCOs use now or on stront fuel like a POS. I personally would use the vulnerability windows. Once reinforced all service modules and tethering effects go offline. High, Medium, and Low slots would remain active as well as capacitor regeneration, docking, and personal and ship storage. At the end of the reinforcement timer the repair timer starts up and after 15 minutes of no damage the citadel will begin repairing itself. It would not be instantly repaired though, it would regenerate its structure, armor, and shield at a fast rate starting with the structure first and then proceed on to armor and finally shield. I think 1 hour to fully repair itself sounds reasonable. If the citadel takes any damage the repair timer starts over again but any previously repaired armor and shield would remain. If the citadel is destroyed then normal loot fairy rules apply, no asset safety like larger citadels.

It would take 15 minutes to anchor the structure and when anchored only the structure layer would be present and the 15 minute repair timer would start. You would be able to immediately dock and fit all types of modules so that you can mount a defense right away if necessary. Unanchoring would also take 15 minutes and anything still contained in the citadel would be ejected into a can that anyone can scoop.

That should cover the basics of the citadel itself. I don't feel this or any other structure should be able to cloak while we have a perfect cloaking system in game. These things need to be able to be found and shot at. One idea that I could see as a service module is while any ship is tethered it does not show up on dscan or combat probes. The citadel would be visible but act as a mobile scan inhibitor. Other service modules will likely come out when the new indy and mining structures are released so those could fit on here too.

So there is a small citadel that is more mobile than a medium but also more vulnerable. It would be defend able against a small group and would augment a defensive fleet. It would allow storage for personal items as well as ships. It would be able to accomplish all the normal things a citadel can(except market) just not all of them at once. This would be a personal deployable so corp roles wouldn't matter but could be configured to allow corp/alliance access. Leaving it vulnerable all the time and having a short reinforcement window means it isn't well suited to be a beachhead for an invading army but will deter anyone that isn't committing to the fight.

Let me know what everyone thinks!
KL


This sounds great, i would limit it to the refining aray maybe, so you couldn't clone jump either and definitely no drone bay.
Henkus Garemoko
Mitochondrial EVE Alliance
Sixth Empire
#31 - 2016-05-24 20:37:18 UTC
shouldn't it be more like an orca you can anchor in lets say 15 minutes,

fitting just like a ship, limiting the use to defencive or industrial (or a litle bit of both) reinforcement/vurnibility timer only for a couple of hours, and loosing its anchor after beeing shot into enough damage (giving it the option to be stolen)

unachorable if reinforced, so you can force people out of space, and shoot them on the fly. (or let them escape for a fee)

the fitting should make it a lab, factory or mining array, ofcourse with a small amount of turretspace and a forcefield.
just enough to hold of a small roaming gang.

maybe even a tug ship thats needed to tow it. if unachord, witch can be used to haul small cargo to and from the array. so every race gets a towboat to go with the array. (and with no towboat its impossible to tow out of the dangerzone) the hanger can ofcourse carry some ships and give refitting/repair service, but that should cost fuel,(just as using whatever fitting is used) forcing people to interact with the markets)


henkus
Aaron Raus
Diving club
#32 - 2016-06-21 07:32:11 UTC
Henkus Garemoko wrote:
shouldn't it be more like an orca you can anchor in lets say 15 minutes,




I would prefer something, that can be launched from Orca. So I can travel with ishtar and few more ships in hangar, small citadel in cargo bay and settle where I want for a few days, whichout waiting a week to deploy / undeploy the structure.
Raging Bull Unchained
Signal Lost
#33 - 2016-06-21 07:55:39 UTC
I always "thought" about a ship like the orca (or rorqual because the models fits better imo) that is able to "deploy" itself.
If deployed it´s unable to move, generates a "pos like shield" (with a lot less hp ofc) and acts like a very limitied station (using it´s ship bay for docking). If it should have guns... i dunno. But if its deployed it only can be undeployed - no items can be activated (like cloak). De- and undeploying takes 0,5 - 1h.
Ikshuki
Sleepercore
#34 - 2016-07-31 18:36:39 UTC
The fact of the matter is, the entire playerbase is treating eve like farmville, and the last 3 expansions they have tried to kick the players out of the npc stations and failed, and as a result they have lost 25% their subs, so in order to keep what they have, they have decided to introduce citadels in order to try to turn station hiding a new risk of playing eve in order to finally get them to do something, but once that doesn't work they might start having anchor timers, nerf the defenses, or even add a service that would start placing docking limits of how many players can be docked at a citadel at one time, a reckoning is coming, and CCP will be the one to pay the price for the very lazy playerbase we now have, you try to force players not to be lazy gamers, but in the end, they'll just all go back to WoW once you start making them play the game again
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#35 - 2016-07-31 19:25:04 UTC
Op, S Citadel = Mobile Depot.
If mobile depot's don't meet your needs ask for a revamp to a mobile depot. But there isn't a slot in the system between Mobile Depot & M Citadel.
To Jenni, you are thinking of their initial layout draft, which did have a 'S Citadel' slot, but they labelled that as what the Mobile Depot was filling.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
SONS of BANE
#36 - 2016-08-12 21:06:26 UTC
Aaron Raus wrote:
Petrified wrote:


What is needed is a quasi capital ship class from Upwell that functions like a mobile Citadel.


Capital ship will require long time skilling and can be boarded by anyone with appropriate skills. but of cause that can be also the way, if boarding procedure will be defended with password and skill requirements will be lowered.


I am not seeing your concern. A POS, once anchored, cannot be unanchored by just anyone. However, if it is not anchored and sitting in space anyone can come by and take it. Likewise, if you have a ship which can be 'anchored' then not just anyone can come by an unanchor it.

It would have no cloning, no medical, no refining, no market. Just a place where non-capitals can park, refit, repair, unload and load cargo and otherwise act as a temporary abode. It would take fuel blocks to run in an anchored mode. Anchoring and unanchoring takes 30-60 minutes and can be piloted or not piloted during that time.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#37 - 2016-08-14 00:46:38 UTC
Aaron Raus wrote:
Hi.

Sooner or later POS will be gone. But even now player requires roles to be able to launch the POS.

I suggest small personal citadel, that can be launched by player regardless to corp roles he has.

It can have much smaller EHP, require no war dec to be shoot (so - no use in high sec), limited ship hangar (but still larger, than ORCA's one) and a number of other limitations against medium citadel. But it still will let player has "mobile" home in null / WH space, that requires no fuel to let him dock. It should be cheapier, than medium citadel and have smaller anchoring / de-anchoring times (no "wait a week and than relocate").


I used to use a POS for highsec purposes and didnt leave it up even 24 hours, your suggestion doesn't address the single highsec player that wants a quick place, use and remove POS alternative so improve the idea or no.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

jumama
Underemployed INC
#38 - 2016-08-14 02:07:39 UTC
As a solo player, I don't bother to try to explore anything under .5 anymore, due to there normally being 10+ battleships portal humping the other side of the warp gate spamming AE smartbombs.
Don't see how that can be much fun to do 24/7, but I've never tried it either... so maybe it's a blast.

I mostly just build stuff. I can build just about anything that whirls, buzzes, flies, bumps, or thumps.
But, I hit a wall when it came to the moon minerals.

Currently, I can pop a starbase in a wormhole for a couple hours here and there before my path home collapses to get a tiny bit here and there. But, it takes a week, or more to build a single T2 ship.

Now, if they're phasing out starbases... How are we going to get moon minerals?

Can I anchor modules at one of these Citadels?
Like Moon Arrays, Silos and Reactors?

And what the hell is with the insane fuel usage!
One of the components for fuel blocks is already needed in mass quantities by Jump Drives on freighters.
125 million a month in just fuel for a tiny starbase that only has the power/cpu to support 3 arrays is nuts!
Offline this one and that one... online this one... pull ship out of the maintenance array... offline it... online this one... online this one...
Especially with the fuel blocks now being consumed by the loads of citadels... that seem to use no fuel at all if you don't turn on some of the modules.
Mining ice for 3 solid 15 hour days a month sucks... just saying.

But, seriously... How do you mine a moon without a starbase!?
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#39 - 2016-08-14 03:32:15 UTC
jumama wrote:
As a solo player, I don't bother to try to explore anything under .5 anymore, due to there normally being 10+ battleships portal humping the other side of the warp gate spamming AE smartbombs.


I have not run across this in quite some time. You might want to try again. Also, do a bit of research and try to jump in to low through a backwater system as those close to hubs or trade routes are more likely to be camped.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#40 - 2016-08-14 08:44:45 UTC
Astrahus SPAM is already all over the place.

Before the year is over every nullsec gate will have an astrahus on every side of gate and almost every system will likely have a fortizar.

The good systems will eventually all have keepstars and all these citadels will never get removed because with the inclusion of superweapons these citadels are guaranteed to kill ships no matter how you approach fighting them.

Citadels are cancer, the last thing we need is an even cheaper variant that you could drop every 1 au in the systems.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

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