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Rail Vindi, Torp Rattlesnake or Navy Domi for pve?
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PwnageForce

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 3

#1 - 2016-05-09 07:11:50 UTC | Edited by: PwnageForce

I am looking for a ship to do general pve content like storyline/cosmos missions and things of that nature and I have Caldari BS 5 and Gallente BS 4. I have perfect gunnery skills/almost-perfect missile skills and tech 2 torpedoes but not tech 2 cruise missiles otherwise I would just use a cruise rattlesnake. I also have tech 2 sentries and mediums but not heavy drones.
Edit: I also do have tech 2 RHMLs if those are viable.

Which would give me the highest dps and a decently strong tank out of a Rail Vindi, Torp Rattlesnake, Navy Domi or something else?

I have been out of the game for a few years so I am not familiar with current relative strength of drones and the various weapons.

Thanks for your help.

erg cz

Federal Jegerouns

Likes received: 617

#2 - 2016-05-09 08:37:03 UTC

You can try that one:
[Rattlesnake, PVE]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I

Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5
Warden II x2
Curator II x2

Hyperspatial rigs can be replaced by anything else - that fit is for L4 missions, where you travel a lot.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!

PwnageForce

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 3

#3 - 2016-05-09 10:37:08 UTC

Thanks for the fit, looks good except I think I'd prefer a ship with a bit more tank.

Does anyone see any glaring flaws in this fit? I know it needs +3 implants for cpu/power.

[Vindicator, Lv4s modified]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Thermal Hardener

500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

Garde II x5

Khan Wrenth

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 782

#4 - 2016-05-09 13:53:57 UTC

Well, I've never flown a Vndi, but methinks there is a glaring problem with your fit.

Your mids look like you're a brawler - you have a MWD for chasing targets, two webs to tackle NPCs...but your highs are rail. At the sort of ranges you're looking to use those webs, your own movement speed relative to the target is probably going to throw off your aim. If you want to chase and web targets, you'd be better off with blasters. If you want rails, well, there's probably cheaper and more effective options, but your mids should probably be devoted to a MJD, tracking computer/range, sensor booster for countering NPC EWAR.

Also worth considering - if you're going to go blasters, perhaps go one web, one tracking computer scripted for tracking speed, and one target painter? A second web isn't going to give you that much more benefit on a target, whereas a painter is always nice to help bring more damage onto smaller targets and you already have tracking speed enhanced through the tracking computer and web.

If you're going to stick with rails on your Vindi - and again I must stress tech I battleships are probably a better option for it, then you should commit entirely to it. Ditch the webs for tracking computers and/or target painters and really make sure your module loadout in it's entirety revolves around keeping enemies at range and smashing them there. Again, MJD, possibly a MWD too if you're feeling adventurous, tracking computers, target painter to help with the small stuff, targeting computer if you have tons of small stuff to lock onto and you don't want to wait until tomorrow for those locks to finish (but that's merely a question of preference, as it will not really help the actual mission-running).

But that's my uneducated observation. Maybe rail Vindis are a thing, but it just seems backwards. The hull is built on brawling, so equipping rails just doesn't look right. If a veteran Vindi pilot wants to speak up and offer better advice, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.

Sheeth Athonille

TerraTroopers

Get Off My Lawn

Likes received: 155

#5 - 2016-05-09 19:24:04 UTC

I would personally recommend meta 4 cruise missile launchers on a rattlesnake. RHML's are good, but the reload always makes me cry lol

A torp rattlesnake gets some insane dps, but you have to sacrifice tank for application, and it'll take you forever to get in range. Only real place it's useful is structure bashing and some null anoms.

Rail vindi could work, and your fit isn't bad per se, but you're definitely going to want to fit faction webs to truly take advantage of the bonuses on the ship. Otherwise it's not a bad fit, I just personally prefer the cruise rattle.

P.S. I'm guessing you don't have projectile skills? If you do, then mach is definitely your answer.

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#6 - 2016-05-09 19:34:46 UTC

Sheeth Athonille wrote:

A torp rattlesnake gets some insane dps, but you have to sacrifice tank for application, and it'll take you forever to get in range. Only real place it's useful is structure bashing and some null anoms.

A torpedo Rattlesnake wasn't really that viable before it lost the missile velocity bonus in the last rebalance. It's definitely not really anything to consider now.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.


PwnageForce School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State Likes received: 3	#7 - 2016-05-10 01:01:18 UTC Thank you for the input, I thought the webs might be useful to help tracking in case small targets got close but I will give your ideas a try. My current fit is a shield-tanked blaster vindi but it gets torn to shreds in missions due to lack of tank and when there are sentry turrets 150km away it gets really annoying, maybe a MJD would fix that issue.

Laphroaig Inc. 1,309
Mephiztopheleze Laphroaig Inc. Likes received: 1,309	#8 - 2016-05-10 02:36:21 UTC 4 a Rail Vindicator is an abomination unto both Railguns and Vindicators. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#9 - 2016-05-10 12:31:09 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Aihaken

PwnageForce wrote:

Thank you for the input, I thought the webs might be useful to help tracking in case small targets got close but I will give your ideas a try.

My current fit is a shield-tanked blaster vindi but it gets torn to shreds in missions due to lack of tank and when there are sentry turrets 150km away it gets really annoying, maybe a MJD would fix that issue.

Yes, a MJD is a better choice for sniping setups. You're better off utilizing a flight of light drones for frigates. The best setup for blasters is a Kronos running Null L ammunition as this gives you a 70km range.

Mephiztopheleze wrote:

a Rail Vindicator is an abomination unto both Railguns and Vindicators.

Not this again...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

PwnageForce

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 3

#10 - 2016-05-11 00:00:31 UTC

Alright I spent some time in EFT last night, what do you all think of this?

[Vindicator, pve blaster]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Dark Blood Armor Thermal Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large Micro Jump Drive
500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

Mephiztopheleze

Laphroaig Inc.

Likes received: 1,309

#11 - 2016-05-11 05:33:33 UTC

That looks much better.

Although, with a 90% Web, I'm not sure you need 2x Webs, perhaps a Target Painter or a Tracking Computer instead? I'd probably find something different to use instead of the Hyperspatial rig.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#12 - 2016-05-11 06:24:33 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Aihaken

Mephiztopheleze wrote:

I'd probably run a stasis web and a heavy stasis grappler. The Kronos is still going to outperform the Vindicator with blasters, though.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Khan Wrenth

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 782

#13 - 2016-05-11 06:47:38 UTC

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

I'd probably run a stasis web and a heavy stasis grappler. The Kronos is still going to outperform the Vindicator with blasters, though.

While true, we are not discussing perfect situations. We're discussing his situation. And so far as we know, Kronos is not currently flyable to him, and it costs twice as much.

I said earlier that a rail ship would be better served by a tech 1 battleship than a pirate battleship. In the same vein, if he can achieve his goal comfortably using a ~600mill pirate battleship, then there really isn't a need to train another long skill to enable him to fly a battleship that costs twice as much.

It's important to stay practical in EvE. There's a lot of superfluous choices a person can make in this game. If your ends are achieved in a simple boat with tech II equipment, there's no need to double the cost of your hull and equip deadspace/faction equipment (just as an example). Such upgrades provide returns, but only by slim margins. Those are aesthetic choices more than practical ones, and such upgrades can be beneficial when he has acquired enough practical in-game knowledge to keep his investments safe and minimize the risks he takes.

Much like some of the ship fits you're apparently notorious for posting - whether they work or not in a technical sense isn't really the point. The point is that people have to grow into the game, their ship's abilities, and their vulnerabilities. Let him walk before he runs.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.


Sheeth Athonille TerraTroopers Get Off My Lawn Likes received: 155	#14 - 2016-05-11 07:42:16 UTC I'm not so sure that an mjd and blasters are going to mix terribly well... Double web is so that you can start webbing the next thing you'll be shooting. Otherwise you have to wait for the web to cycle down after you kill a target before you can web the next target.

erg cz

Federal Jegerouns

Likes received: 617

#15 - 2016-05-11 08:13:33 UTC

Even with all changes you made to the vindicator it is still less tanky then suggested Rattlesnake, have problem with application (you have to chase your targets all the time) and can be jammed (drones + auto-targeting missilies will work even under perma jam).
Just because some ship can handle L4 security mission it does not mean it should be used for it. You will lose way to much time chasing targets and struglling with dumps in your vindicator. It is a PvP ship with correspondent bonuses. Even Dominix like that:
[Dominix, 140 km optimal with wardens II]
Heat Sink II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Centum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
AML Compact Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II

Warden II x5
Curator II x5
Garde II x5

will be more effective cause you will be shooting all the time sniping from 100-140 km after LMJD jump and doing half DPS of your vindi but ALL THE TIME. Simply casue there is no problem with tracking, optimal and you even do not need ammo or cap booster charges cause range is your tank.

There is no coincidence that best ships for L4 missions concidered Rattlenake (clear whole room), Machariel (speed blitzing missions) or marauders. Dominix for newbies like me ;)

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!

Arcturus Ursidae

Federal Defense Union

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 40

#16 - 2016-05-11 12:45:09 UTC | Edited by: Arcturus Ursidae

The Domi fit above is very solid and easy to use.

It covers a few issues your Vindi is not addressing.

For missioning in Gallente Gunships I would suggest you need the following some of which you have already covered.

A good LAR

A set of navy hardeners – the cpu gain here is immense.

Reactive Armour hardener I think is great against rats especially missiles.

A touch more drone control range even on a gunship. Drones are still a factor.

At least one Navy Magstab.

Tracking comps are better than webs even with blasters.

If you want to try out a rail boat I would suggest the following. This is fit for rails, this means blasters fit so use them where the mission is appropriate and some are better with blasters carry Null but on a high number turret boat you should prob still stick to antimatter where you can . For blasters swap the sensor booster for a stasis grappler if you think you need a web. Carry the scripts for the sensor booster they can ECCM now.

You need to think then what the Vindi gets over this, prob 100 dps but only inside drone control range, bit faster, webs are situational.

[Hyperion, Mission]
Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Federation Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Federation Navy Armor Thermal Hardener
Reactive Armor Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Fourier Compact Tracking Enhancer

500MN Microwarpdrive II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Sensor Booster II

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator II

Warden II x5
Hornet II x5
Salvage Drone I x5

A Kronos is stronger again, but you need to decide on cost and training.


PwnageForce School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State Likes received: 3	#17 - 2016-05-12 02:08:55 UTC I appreciate the input but I do not intend to train for marauders, tech 2 cruise missiles, or any gun type besides hybrids so I am trying to decide which is best among the options of RHML Rattlesnake, Blaster or Rail Vindi, Navy Domi or some other hybrid gunboat/droneboat.

Khamalaa

Doomheim

Likes received: 2

#18 - 2016-05-12 05:55:42 UTC

If you have missile skills, you have to compare everything against the tengu IMO. Drones are tedious, and cap recharges are worse than missiles to carry around. If you have T2 HAMs, you can make some really interesting setups.

[Tengu, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

EM Ward Field II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor

Over 600 dps (reload incl) with cruiser level application. 500 m/s afterburner, 8.5 warp speed, 5 s align. Add mid slots/rigs as desired. You can bling it up a bit to 700 dps with some bling, while stil being <1b.

[Tengu, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

EM Ward Field II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor

CPU can be tight.

erg cz

Federal Jegerouns

Likes received: 617

#19 - 2016-05-12 08:13:28 UTC

PwnageForce wrote:

Navy Domi or some other hybrid gunboat/droneboat.

Not navy domi nor navy mega are not very effective in PvE. They are PvP ships by design. Dominix biggest bonus is drone optimal range bonus, which let you easely achive over 600 DPS with 160 km optimal and 150 drone control range (with wardens II)
[Dominix, 160 km optimal]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Compact Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Radio L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Radio L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Radio L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II

Warden II x5
Curator II x5
Garde II x5

So you let your drones hammer large targets regardless to where you land after LMJD. Your large guns will be able to clear the field from small frigates because they burn toward you with 0 angular velocity, so tracking is not a problem. And they have to burn 130 + km long way (optimal + falloff of tachyons ), so your guns have enough time to do the job. Lazers can adapt the range instantly - you do not have to wait reload time. If you use standard crystals you do not need to buy new ammo ever. And you have plenty of room for loot. I really do not see much reasons to skill to T3 cruiser for the same dps apart from better mobility. If learn how to jump with LMJD, you will be able to get to the gate in 3 minutes and most missions require more time to clean the room than that.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#20 - 2016-05-12 15:33:32 UTC

PwnageForce wrote:

I appreciate the input but I do not intend to train for marauders, tech 2 cruise missiles, or any gun type besides hybrids so I am trying to decide which is best among the options of RHML Rattlesnake, Blaster or Rail Vindi, Navy Domi or some other hybrid gunboat/droneboat.

RHML Rattlesnake is probably your best bet in terms of raw DPS then. Stick with Rail Vindi for PvE.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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