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LoL Carrier OP ! 3 dictors down and inty had to bail !
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Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-04-30 15:18:14 UTC
Sooo ... good experience last night. Typical failed op backup plan for wormholers. Go roam null a few jumps out of boredom.

In the past finding and holding down a ratting carrier was like shooting fish in a barrel. A dictor or inty could either outrun or speed tank most any drone that was released from it's bay. Even with the lucky shot you would just move out and come back in while it was in the bubbles.

So we do the typical thing. 8 jumps out we find a target, Inty lands. " I got point but i need help NOW" ... I land in a dictor, Bubble up, pulse mwd , second bubble up, O.o is that fighter coming at me at mach 1. POP. 1 shot from a templar 1.

Now this was a standard fast fit hyperspacial duel MSE fit.

Subcaps land, start folding like gumby. Second dictor lands, drops bubble, POP gets 1 shot off grid by another templar 1 before he can even get out of his own bubble. (he was aligned out to warp asap seeing as how i just got smacked)

All initial tackle folds quickly before we can get proper reinforcements to even try to kill the carrier over the period of 10 minutes of landing ships on it.

Needless to say we had to back up and punt.


This will deffinatly make for a small gang taking down a ratter alot more interesting at least at first.

Any one else out there experience this with small gang carrier tackle?
Magnus Rexana
Red Phoenix Rising
#2 - 2016-04-30 17:41:09 UTC
Sounds like carriers are working as intended now. Like carriers, haha!

It will be interesting to see what new tactics develop to take them on.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#3 - 2016-04-30 23:15:59 UTC
webs
Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-05-01 13:54:16 UTC
You mean to web down the fighters? Possible but unlikely viable by the experience I had but if coordinated better maybe? idk.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#5 - 2016-05-02 04:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie McPewpew
Johng Kahn wrote:
Sooo ... good experience last night. Typical failed op backup plan for wormholers. Go roam null a few jumps out of boredom.

In the past finding and holding down a ratting carrier was like shooting fish in a barrel. A dictor or inty could either outrun or speed tank most any drone that was released from it's bay. Even with the lucky shot you would just move out and come back in while it was in the bubbles.

So we do the typical thing. 8 jumps out we find a target, Inty lands. " I got point but i need help NOW" ... I land in a dictor, Bubble up, pulse mwd , second bubble up, O.o is that fighter coming at me at mach 1. POP. 1 shot from a templar 1.

Now this was a standard fast fit hyperspacial duel MSE fit.

Subcaps land, start folding like gumby. Second dictor lands, drops bubble, POP gets 1 shot off grid by another templar 1 before he can even get out of his own bubble. (he was aligned out to warp asap seeing as how i just got smacked)

All initial tackle folds quickly before we can get proper reinforcements to even try to kill the carrier over the period of 10 minutes of landing ships on it.

Needless to say we had to back up and punt.


This will deffinatly make for a small gang taking down a ratter alot more interesting at least at first.

Any one else out there experience this with small gang carrier tackle?

Bring a hictor. Dictors still punch above their weight regardless.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#6 - 2016-05-02 10:20:22 UTC
Step 1:

Cloak the **** up immediately after a bubble.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#7 - 2016-05-03 11:50:43 UTC
capitals sound fun now Big smile

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Hades Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-05-05 04:52:03 UTC
ECM, ECM, ECM. All of those drones just ECM them. there fighters can be perma jammed by a griffin its only setback right now on carriers. So bring a falcon or something and problem solved carrier locked down again.
Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-05-05 12:12:09 UTC
Not a bad idea but i find most of my ratters in the rat sites so I would prob go with a jamgu... esp considering that the new carriers lock a frig in like 3 seconds so you may not live long enough to lock all the drones in a falcon. A pair of jamgu would prob be able to keep the fighters shut down and keep the dps off the offensive sub cap fleet.
MP2008
Restinotia Corp
#10 - 2016-05-06 12:17:50 UTC
Hades Dark wrote:
ECM, ECM, ECM. All of those drones just ECM them. there fighters can be perma jammed by a griffin its only setback right now on carriers. So bring a falcon or something and problem solved carrier locked down again.





Doesn't work, you only jam the first fighter in the squadron, the other 8 still rock your world.


To the OP, I find your account of the event hilarious, keep on bubbling :P
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#11 - 2016-05-06 18:06:45 UTC
Oh noes, giving away the secrets!

MP2008 wrote:
Hades Dark wrote:
ECM, ECM, ECM. All of those drones just ECM them. there fighters can be perma jammed by a griffin its only setback right now on carriers. So bring a falcon or something and problem solved carrier locked down again.





Doesn't work, you only jam the first fighter in the squadron, the other 8 still rock your world.


To the OP, I find your account of the event hilarious, keep on bubbling :P

JUSTK is recruiting
Zathra Narazi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-05-07 05:11:10 UTC
Anyone remember when CCP promised capitals wouldn't become solo pwnmobiles?
Rob Skyfaller
Astromatics
#13 - 2016-05-07 14:41:10 UTC
so?! you think you should be able to kill a ratting carrier in a dicter solo?!

i would suppose a carrier would own any small fleet consisting of only small and cheap stuff, a sac and a phoon.
and perhaps fit a tank to your ships so it actually takes a bit of time to kill you ;)

also.... is this the fight you are talking about?
Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-05-07 14:57:15 UTC
Lol yep. That was the fight.

Where did I ever say a solo dictor needed to be able to kill a carrier? This was just a post citadel recount of my first encounter as tackle with the new carriers. A surprise to the least that a standard templar 1 could track and have speeds that it dose on top of the fact the carrier now locks frigs in like 3 seconds.

As for the fleet comp and such in those kills this was just a derp roam fleet intending to go a few jumps for whatever we found. There was a larger fleet inbound to help kill the carrier but never made it in time. Fight was over quickly. Had we not been trying to hold that carrier down in vein none of the other sub caps would have been lost.

I am not upset about the carrier changes at all. I rather like the fact that they are now able to better defend themselfs. This will make for much more challenging and fun carrier hunting. I honestly have no idea how everyone but the fast tackle where fit. I am new to this corp and not sure how most fit their stuffs.
Juzuv Jebot
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-05-07 18:00:16 UTC
Bring long range points, bring massive alpha. Carrier now can't be AFK to rat, he sees you coming in local and first thing he does if he doesn't warp away immediately will be recalling fighters to him, very likely using precious MWD cycle that has long cooldown.

But surprise! Tackle doesn't land on 0 but instead 40-50km away and the fighters now have to slowboat towards it at breakneck speed of 1400 to get in the 12km range to use the missiles. But in that time your alpha HAC/BC/gank fit cruiser already volleys several of the squishy fighters from grid so when they finally get in range and unleash the missiles they will only hit for unimpressive 10k alpha instead of bone shattering 40k and now they have to plink away with guns until finally killed. Bonus points if HIC/lach/orthrus just burns around leaving the fighters in dust.

Now carrier has no fighters on grid. Now he needs eternity to load new ones. Now he's dead.

Congratulations, you won!

Unless the carrier lights a cyno and blob appears but hey, can't win them all.
Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-05-07 20:03:24 UTC
Nice take on possible approach ! That sounds more viable then anything else i have heard for small gang. Finding a way to negate that amazing application they now have is defiantly key to be able to take them on.

My current ignorance as to the piloting of new carriers hurts my ability to come up with any good ideas. I do not have any carrier pilots myself.
Juzuv Jebot
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-05-07 21:27:54 UTC
Get on test server or ask friend in carrier and try some new tactics. Your primary concern isn't how to kill carrier, that's trivial. Instead ask how to kill fighters. Bring jams, bring disruptors, bring scrams, bring webs, bring painters, hell bring snowball launchers - all of that works on fighters and all of that makes it much easier to kill them. If anything it means that HIC and recon pilots now have place in small gang.
Cemtor
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#18 - 2016-05-09 12:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cemtor
Jamming fighters works, you jam the entire squad if you do so, not just 1 fighter as someone said before. So a quick locking jam + long range web to make sure the carrier pilot doesn't recall them too fast = completely crippled carrier. Being outside of 30-40km range is also helpful as the "instapop" rocket salvo has a roughly 18 km range + take into account the 5-10km/sec MWD speed of the fighters.
Gurista Nerfed
Doomheim
#19 - 2016-05-11 12:13:06 UTC
They were severely underperforming pre patch. I think they are good as they are now.
Milostiev
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2016-05-29 13:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Milostiev
Johng Kahn wrote:
You mean to web down the fighters? Possible but unlikely viable by the experience I had but if coordinated better maybe? idk.

Doesn't work.

Base range of missile attack (the problem here) is 12.5km.
Speed of fighters is a cool 7.5km/s or around that, for 20s, with perfect application of 8k alpha per wing of fighters (it has 3)tp anything with 100m and below sig, unless he has omnidirectional tracking links with tracking scripts, in which case it becomes perfect application even to some t3d's.
Even if you managed to webb it, inertia would still allow the fighter wing to get out.

And besides this, a NSA carrier has scan res around 1000, lock range 4k (gl range damping it) and with 2 sebo's you are looking at around 2k, which is close to instalock domain on frigs.

PS: Managing red-box/yellow-box around the fleet + strong racial jams against the carrier seems the best way.
You need to manually set fighters after a target, but once the targets warps, you need to lock something to be able to do it.

Even with this, pray he doesn't have eccm scripts in the cargo and 2 sebo's fitted, because then you are looking at a scan strength of (say an average base of 80) of 80x1.6x1.52x1.5 (last one from NSA) which gives a sensor strength of 291.84.
This means a sig strength (ratio of sig divided by scan strength ) of 83% if just NSA, or 34% if NSA +2 sebos with eccm scripts.

Let's say that by some magic you manage to achieve 20 jam strength on racial jammers (i haven't looked at a falcon in ages, i assume that's still the top #), then you have 291/20 = 14.55 ..... 1 in 15 chances to jam with each racial jammer if he has eccm scripts in 2 sebos + NSA, and 1 in 6 chances to jam with each racial jammer if he has just NSA.

Sounds like fun. :P
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