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(Page 1) To preface my argrument, I believe change is a positive attribute for any game and especially one trying to continue to grow after so many successful years. This even takes into account that New Eden is a technologically advanced universe therefore it makes senser there would be scientific developments to fix ongoing problems (and no i do not think any comparisons between Real Life ships and Eve are useful nor relevant). And advocating for carrier changes technically would not be in the best interest of small scale pvp such is the play style I have chosen to pursue in Eve but I supported it anyways.

I believe and have believed for some time carriers needed to be modified. Their role had become stale for years and were relegated to fancy healers with an unusable drone bay or a mediocre NPC ratting ship. They fortunately received a reprieve in the form of Drone Damage Amplifiers and became a more effective drone/fighter projection platform BUT at the expense of their own safety. Not only did their potential opponents also received this module, while it was effective at boosting damage output for all ships with drones and fighters (tracking was still the same), there was a sacrifice in for form of dedicating the carriers low module slots to damage instead of tank or utility module. The inclusion of the DDA into New Eden was widely seen as a good innovation and welcomed by the capuleseers. The change played directly into the risk/reward profile of Eve Online.

Now comes the Citadel patch with many changes which includes additional changes to capitals. As stated earlier, I believe carriers needed additional changes and was open to the opportunities. Many thousands of us took to the Singularity to test out the new capital changes with baited anticipation of what was to come (the Doomsday changes alone would have been enough!!!! Titans needed love because all they were for years was an expensive bridging ship that could DD from time to time). Many tests were conducted and explosions were had by all. Capitals were fun again. Though after playing around for a while, it became obvious the landscape of capitals was going to change drastically. The Titans were beasts finally. Supers were OMG WHAT and RIP armor supers especially after the new shield Slave implants. Dreads seemed like the basic glass cannon but cool until tested versus citadels then the novelty wore off. Strictly an anti-capital ship but mainly carriers and gone were the gays of dread bombs to kill a titan and supers will be a struggle. HAW dreads seemed like a potentially fun addition AND THEN I undocked a regular carrier. HAW dreads became useless almost instantaneously. Why in the vast universe of New Eden would I EVER risk a few billion ISK to tracking error or range of a HAW Dread again? As testing on Singularity proved one logically would or should not. As the damage and projection stood on Singularity, it was hard to find someone who did not think the numbers would be modified before going live! They were just too amazing so it had to be a base from which the Devs and CCP worked down from.

Then on the 27th of April the patch went LIVE and the carrier jumped into the Tranquility cyno to change the current meta drastically. Turns out the Singularity numbers were not a starting point but instead THE point on which we had to judge carriers. Within a day, the carrier transformed from a support ship in fleets to THE FLEET. A standard carrier has all but eliminated the role of standard dreadnoughts unless your fleet already owns the field and demoted it to the "Can I bring a Drake" class of ship. And HAW Dreads? Don't waste your isk brother for less damage, projection, tracking and mobility. So how did it change the game and why do I care? Well after fighting carriers in the wild of New Eden, there is no point not to use them over everything else and here is why it needs to get some review.

Basic Review Needed but more fine tuning:
-The base speed of fighter squadrons from carriers is drastically increased(2305m/s), alright we can deal with this.
-The squadron can go over 13,000m/s and travel across 300km+ in one micro warp drive burst? This too can be dealt with but not with scrams because the cycle still operates at full capacity as if nothing happened. This should be reviewed as it is the only ship in the game where this is the case.
-The standard weaponry on the fighter which needs to be reloaded? Standard but can adapt. It is a drone built for damage and based on out a capital ship, it needs to have the ability to do so.
-The 'alpha' weaponry on the fighter. Those numbers are just eye watering amazing. The poor sucker who can't escape. Luckily there is only one or two shots before reload. Wait, nope, not true. NINE shots and on a relatively short fire cycle.
- The base insurance payout on a carrier is remarkably high so fielding it is not that big of a risk for the best ship out there. The insurance tables are what they have been forever and we all know it's the worst managed insurance company ever.
- Reload time while fighters in space and refueling back in the carrier. Once again manageable to a degree but needs consideration. As of now, there is no reason not to constantly fire all weapons and micro back to carrier. The empty fighters can go from hundreds of kilometers away from the carrier to fully refueled and back out on target again in under 45 seconds. This is a little extreme with the application and projection already available.

So many things are wrong with your "facts" I don't even know where to start.

Why spent time and energy on a long reply, when the post is full of garbage?

Examples:

>The empty fighters can go from hundreds of kilometers away from the carrier to fully refueled and back out on target again in under 45 seconds
>Fighter Tracking and damage application ability. Not even negotiable or manageable. This needs to be addressed. Everything in Eve Online uses tracking or some aspect of it in the calculations for damage application. Even the Doomsdays of Titans have tracking and signature restrains and these are AoE weapons again
>-The base speed of fighter squadrons from carriers is drastically increased(2305m/s)
>Wait, nope, not true. NINE shots and on a relatively short fire cycle.


Shitposts get "cop out replies"

To be fair, there are now some situations where carriers are very effective. Mainly as overkill in a micro gang setting. I've been having success and fun gate camping and picking on small numbers of cruisers and/or battleships, but there's no way I'd use a carrier in a fleet. To be viable in larger battles they need fighters with longer range and less ammo concerns, like sentry drones or the long range heavy fighters. The current fighters are very good for popping a few subcaps, but kind of terrible if the battle isn't over in 2-3 minutes or if there's enough spare DPS on the field to shoot the fighters. Even a lone ECM ship can cause huge problems, though that can be mitigated to some extent by pulling and relaunching the fighters, hoping to alpha it before the jammers finish cycling.

Carriers have a use, but it's radically different than other capitals and they don't really have a place in the same fleet as the others.

Even at 100km it can be doable with a little extra fighter speed. If you pull the fighters immediately when the ECM cycle starts, that's 1 second to recall + 5 to refuel + 1 to launch + 1 to activate MWD and tell them to move, leaving 12-13 seconds for the fighters to engage before the ECM can be activated again. It's not unreasonable for fighters to cover 90km and fire their missiles in 12 seconds. Also keep in mind that multispectral ECM has less range and racial ECM of the wrong type isn't quite 100% effective on most ships.

But now just by putting that ecm ship on grid you have limited the fighters range to about 10km any farther and it takes more time to bring them back and your fighters need to go over 110km as an ecm ship can mwd ~24km father in those 10 seconds it takes to mwd a fighter 100km. Not to mention just adding one other ecm pilot to leap frog with will shut your carrier down.

Also I was using multi to get that range

The biggest issue i have with carriers/fighters currently is:

i think the fact i need to use the UI to do anything at all is just a bit to much micro, but allowing us to engage the basic attack by F would go a long way to fixing this. we were able to engage the basic attack from the fighters using F since fighters first came out years ago and you really need to put it back.


i should only have to use that UI if i want to use the special attack or the MWD feature.

Well that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about baiting an ECM ship into jamming your fighters, then quickly returning and relaunching them in an attempt to hit the ECM ship before their jammers finish cycling.

Yeah I misunderstood as I was in a hurry, my bad.

that one switch can be used to do one thing on one fighter or one on 5 fighters