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Orca Swapping?

Author
Sylvia Arnor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-05-07 01:20:26 UTC
So, I was watching a fight in highsec today. Guy went suspect in a worm. And then another guy went to kill him in a Cerberus.

Trouble was, the worm then swapped out from a nearby orca that warped in to a proteus and killed the cerb quite easily.

I thought the orca would have gotten a suspect timer due to the LE timer the worm had? Is that wrong?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-05-07 01:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Sylvia Arnor wrote:
Is that wrong?

Yes.

Crimewatch makes it so you can only go suspect through a direct action yourself.

Simply having your fleet hangar available to fleet members doesn't count for that. So since the guy in the limited engagement was the one making the change, the Orca pilot character didn't actually do anything and so doesn't go suspect.

The alternative would be hilarious, if fleet members could send Orca pilots suspect through their actions.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#3 - 2016-05-07 04:55:37 UTC
Then, let the hilarity ensue. You can't say being a staging facility
for the so-called "direct actors" isn't a direct action itself.
Management can say it, but they say all sorts of things, don't they?

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#4 - 2016-05-07 07:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
I think its ok.

Orca pilot did not take any active actions against the one or another.
Technically warping to someone is not considered a crime. Using orca hangar to swap a ship is also not a crime.

Also, see it from other perspective. What if someone would suspect that orca would warp in to change ships, and have a collegues just to scramble and destroy what would be swapped.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-05-07 07:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
Then, let the hilarity ensue. You can't say being a staging facility
for the so-called "direct actors" isn't a direct action itself.
Management can say it, but they say all sorts of things, don't they?

Sure, I personally think it would be great.

It would be the end of public mining fleets offering boosts and would provide no end of fun for awoxers. More win for chaos and pain to miners. That would be a great thing in my view.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#6 - 2016-05-07 07:51:41 UTC
CCP disallowing ship swapping while GCC would amount to the first step towards giving the orca a suspect tag as well for it and give the aggressor ACTUAL risk swapping ships. Another way of doing it is to disallow swapping or refitting while a weapons timer, suspect flag or LE is active as well.

I have to second the public fleets downfall issue myself too.Twisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-05-07 07:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
CCP disallowing ship swapping while GCC would amount to the first step towards giving the orca a suspect tag as well for it and give the aggressor ACTUAL risk swapping ships. Another way of doing it is to disallow swapping or refitting while a weapons timer, suspect flag or LE is active as well.

I have to second the public fleets downfall issue myself too.Twisted

LE timer last 5 minutes.

Weapons timer lasts 1 minute.

So at the upper end, someone only has to wait 60 seconds to dock instead and then undock with around 3:30 left on the LE. Seems kind of pointless putting a ban on ship changing from an Orca unless you are now asking to also ban docking while suspect.

Just one more nerf to people who play a way you don't like, not even considering the issues this would create in lowsec, which has no concern for highsec issues.

For someone to be in a limited engagement, someone else also has to shoot at them. When is the other guy shooting acceptable as a way to say 'ok buddy, your choice'? Why does it always have to be, 'but he didn't know....that's so unfair?'

The game isn't about fair, so no need to destroy all the fun because cotton balls.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#8 - 2016-05-07 08:17:40 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
CCP disallowing ship swapping while GCC would amount to the first step towards giving the orca a suspect tag as well for it and give the aggressor ACTUAL risk swapping ships. Another way of doing it is to disallow swapping or refitting while a weapons timer, suspect flag or LE is active as well.

I have to second the public fleets downfall issue myself too.Twisted

LE timer last 5 minutes.

Weapons timer lasts 1 minute.

So at the upper end, someone only has to wait 60 seconds to dock instead and then undock with around 3:30 left on the LE. Seems kind of pointless putting a ban on ship changing from an Orca unless you are now asking to also ban docking while suspect.

Just one more nerf to people who play a way you don't like, not even considering the issues this would create in lowsec, which has no concern for highsec issues.

Ahh no. As docking and undocking takes quite a long time and even in a BS you can warp off in time if you see it happening. So being aware at that point would give you more than enough time to get away. Also having the orca inherit the suspect or weapons timers would put THAT ship at risk too which is exactly what people doing it dont want. Risk vs reward applies here. Theres so many other ways to suspect bait that no it wont put a crimp in anyone thats good's playstyles..... that is unless that is ALL you do for your kills?

In the end the idiots that fall for this time and time again are epically funny to watch though and I have watched them do this consistently for years and years now.Lol

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-05-07 08:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Also having the orca inherit the suspect or weapons timers would put THAT ship at risk too which is exactly what people doing it dont want. Risk vs reward applies here. Theres so many other ways to suspect bait that no it wont put a crimp in anyone thats good's playstyles.....

But then, changing to that impacts totally innocent people not involved in this sort of play at all.

An awoxer could join a mining Corp, and even though they have Friendly Fire set to illegal, he could go suspect while in fleet (by any of mutliple ways possible) and then drop something into the Orca, sending it suspect. He would then have free reign to kill the Orca without CONCORD response.

Similar possibility in public fleets.

Making this change, to assist the idiot that shot at the suspect thinking he would get an easy kill; would totally impact people who have no interest or involvement in that style of play.

Why limit their play and not accept that the guy who shot at the suspect has to actually be responsible for his decision if he falls for a suspect bait? More fool him.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#10 - 2016-05-07 10:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
tbh IF they changed it, they could easily just disallow fleet hangar usage according to the orca pilot's use of safeties...

But I don't think it needs changing - highsec pvp is 100% mechanical shenanigans, one more shenanigan doesn't hurt those that play that game.

edit: Next time have a neutral friend come on grid and instalock the proteus - that stops the other person from boarding the ship which means you can kill his pod, then steal his T3.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines
#11 - 2016-05-07 10:17:14 UTC
Some of you may not realize that there are two buttons on both the fleet hanger and ship maintenance hanger, they are usually covered up in the inventory window. These two buttons allow or disallow access to the hangers. There is a button for corp/alliance access and a button for fleet access. Toggling those on or off would render the orca pilot impervious to random miscreants that might use their ship bay to swap ships. There seems to be no toggle for using the fitting service though.

I would have no problem allowing the orca to gain a limited engagement timer for assisting someone by allowing them to swap ships. This timer could be easily avoided by having the orca pilot kick a ship out of the hanger though. Using an orca or any other ship for that matter to affect the outcome of a combat engagement should come with some consequences.