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POSES and Citadels, Nomadic Lifestyle

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Author
John Dreads
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-05-05 19:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: John Dreads
Agree with the OP.

I really don't want to see POS getting replaced by citadels. How else are you going to store a Titan and bridge fleets in? A POS is much cheaper and way more affordable and can be used as a staging point. A citadel is quite expensive, takes forever to online and is a huge target for people.

Sure, citadels are cool. But please, don't have them replace POS.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2016-05-05 19:25:13 UTC
John Dreads wrote:
Agree with the OP.

I really don't want to see POS getting replaced by citadels. How else are you going to store a Titan and bridge fleets in? A POS is much cheaper and way more affordable and can be used as a staging point. A citadel is quite expensive, takes forever to online and is a huge target for people.

Sure, citadels are cool. But please, don't have them replace POS.


They make for good fly traps
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#23 - 2016-05-05 19:36:00 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Hate to burst your bubble.... but the Medium Citadel is the "smaller stuff" to support smaller corps - they mention it once or twice in each getting back to structure Dev blog and the CSM notes links gives a bullet pointed list of what they replace


Well, your read of the data available is different than mine. If your point is indeed the case then small corps will fold and the players playing that style will leave and CCP will just have to deal with their choices. They can have their large faction game and that will be that. Maybe that's what they want, but then again, maybe not.
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#24 - 2016-05-06 11:03:19 UTC
Totally agree with OP. It's the different playstyles that make EvE great and I too enjoy a nomadic adventure every few weeks. I adventure solo with 1 account, so the Orca examples using multiple alts do not work for me. Something with a ship hanger (25k-50k) and larger storage (50k-75k) would be nice. I don't see why a "big brother" to the mobile depot wouldn't work and should be pretty easy for CCP to create using the mobile depot model. Something like this is needed to fill the huge gap between the mobile depot and the med Citadel.
The Machiavellian
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-05-06 11:07:47 UTC
The Mobile Depot.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#26 - 2016-05-06 14:37:43 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
I lived solo for about 6 months is a C2 with a low sec static. My POS(Citdel) was an Orca. With two accounts I had 5 PI farmers, 1 gas sniffer/miner and 1 site runner. 1 character was always in the Orca.

This setup allowed me to live out of the ship maintenance bay.

It took me some time to figure out the logistics and the skills each character needed. It was not a big skill investment per say but it did take time to pull it all together. After six months I had had enough and pulled everything back together into hisec.

Now when I want to get away I resort to the ghetto base: setting up a deep safe, anchoring secure containers, loading several with supplies and living out of a mobile depot. This is my "camping" with a tent. It can be done in any security level space.

However, like the OP, I would really like a more comfortable "home away from home". Frankly, after making exploration an entry level profession, I think CCP needs to throw us bitter exploration vets a bone.



The Orca as a replacement for a POS - are the gas processors going to be mid or low slot modules ?

Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#27 - 2016-05-06 15:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tzar Sinak
The gas harvesters were attached to a ship in the Orca. The Orca never left the safe spot and was equipped with a cloak when not immediately needed. When it was time for the Orca pilot to gather his PI, he switched ships with a character on the other account.

The gas and ore was handled else where.

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Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#28 - 2016-05-06 15:30:16 UTC
The Machiavellian wrote:
The Mobile Depot.


The Mobile Depot is just too small. The idea of finding a wormhole or quiet null sec system and setting up shop for 3-5 days, cleaning out the sites and then moving on is in serious jeopardy. The small POS was perfect for this. There was no need for any defenses, just a quick anchor, add some fuel and off you go. I use 3 ships for my travels, none very expensive, but they still need a place to be stored. Leaving them floating empty in space while you scan the system or run a Relic site seems a bit absurd. When it's time to move a quick pack up into your hauler and head off to find the next adventure.

Hopefully CCP does not forget about this style of play and actually realize how dangerous and exciting being a nomad can be in EvE.
Josef Djugashvilis
#29 - 2016-05-06 16:44:31 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Agree with the OP.

Just make sure it fits inside a Blockade Runner.



DMC


I would be very happy if CCP did this ^^^

This is not a signature.

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#30 - 2016-05-06 16:56:54 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
The gas harvesters were attached to a ship in the Orca. The Orca never left the safe spot and was equipped with a cloak when not immediately needed. When it was time for the Orca pilot to gather his PI, he switched ships with a character on the other account.

The gas and ore was handled else where.


What part of the Orca let you run reactions with that gas?
Netan MalDoran
Deliverance.
Ocularis Inferno
#31 - 2016-05-06 18:13:24 UTC
I think it would be great to introduce a 'small citadel', i mean, they started out with mediums, so obviously they are leaving the possibility open. True, they are harder to manage for nomadic people like me, but I do love the fact that they are soo much cheaper! :D

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

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DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#32 - 2016-05-06 18:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
As stated, this is just the first line. The point of the the citadel was to replace the ship hanger and the corp hanger.

Nomads will have other tools. If your a mining you wll use a drill platform which will have hangers, and its own set of weapons and tools. Be easier to move, but not as defensible. The idea is to drop it someplace, mine the **** out of whatever, grab it and move to the next place.

if your a builder, then you will use the industrial arrays, set up shop, build crap, sell it, move on.

want research? used a research up

all these will be smaller and easier to move then a citadel. (in theory) More tools are coming.

This thread is basically someone looking at the first car and going 'but but my wagon and oxen can carry all my stuff! what the hell!' and ignore that a truck is on its way. Patience. When they start doing the announcement for other structures provide feed back.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

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Marsha Mallow
#33 - 2016-05-06 18:27:00 UTC
An option might be to create more diverse mobile depots perhaps designed for nomadic soloers? Sounds like the existing one has some functionality but perhaps there should be a range of options.

The only thing to bear in mind is how these scale depending on the size of the group deploying them. It wouldn't be ideal for a massive bloc to start spamming mobile depots at corp level as forward stagers during conflicts to avoid having to commit to dropping Cits. If there was a more varied line of depots designed for solo use, they'd probably need to be access restricted to the person dropping it to avoid that type of abuse.

Other than that can't see any reason not to request this. Just get people with similar gamestyles to post in support of any proposals so it gets some attention and see what the response is. I vaguely recall this question of small structure classes popping up at the structure roundtable and I think (altho not certain, so best wait for a proper reply) Fozzie confirmed they haven't ruled it out as a possibility depending on feedback.

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Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#34 - 2016-05-06 18:39:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
Alton Haveri reports for The Scope as the embers of World War Bee continue to smoulder.

Meanwhile, the Upwell Consortium comes under criticism for misrepresenting dreams of Utopia, after thousands die in the destruction of a number of the first citadels to be erected in New Eden.



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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#35 - 2016-05-06 18:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
So I hope in planning ahead, CCP do create something for the space gypsy;

Isn't that what Jita local is for?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#36 - 2016-05-06 21:17:32 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Alton Haveri reports for The Scope as the embers of World War Bee continue to smoulder.

Meanwhile, the Upwell Consortium comes under criticism for misrepresenting dreams of Utopia, after thousands die in the destruction of a number of the first citadels to be erected in New Eden.



EVE News

https://www.facebook.com/eveonline/?fref=nf

Sue them!
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2016-05-06 21:35:13 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
As stated, this is just the first line. The point of the the citadel was to replace the ship hanger and the corp hanger.

Nomads will have other tools. If your a mining you wll use a drill platform which will have hangers, and its own set of weapons and tools. Be easier to move, but not as defensible. The idea is to drop it someplace, mine the **** out of whatever, grab it and move to the next place.

if your a builder, then you will use the industrial arrays, set up shop, build crap, sell it, move on.

want research? used a research up

all these will be smaller and easier to move then a citadel. (in theory) More tools are coming.

This thread is basically someone looking at the first car and going 'but but my wagon and oxen can carry all my stuff! what the hell!' and ignore that a truck is on its way. Patience. When they start doing the announcement for other structures provide feed back.

Was this hinted at Fanfest or just wishful thinking? My understanding so far is, that the industry structures will be Citadels with different bonus, less defense and a longer vulnerability period ... solo play is not what CCP wants.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
#38 - 2016-05-07 02:45:10 UTC
I have to agree with the overall sentiment, Citadels are great for permanent long-term bases of operation but the long anchoring time and anchoring distance restrictions make them very poor for nomadic players, for short-term operations, and for setting up strategic safespots. These are all roles that Starbases currently perform, and if new structures don't fill those gaps then EVE will lose yet more of its emergent gameplay and will be worse off for it. Personally, I'd love a stripped down Astrahus that takes an hour to set up and take down but has some other drawback like poor fittings or a base fuel cost.

If we don't get that, our only other hope lands with upcoming structures. The industrial outposts coming in Fall/Autumn will be basically citadels with manufacturing and research facilities are will come in the same sizes as citadels. I expect them to be seen as permanent long-term structures just like citadels and they'll likely have the same long anchor times and restrictions. The Drilling platforms coming in the winter update are another matter, as they're still very early in development so we don't exactly know how they'll turn out.

Drilling Platforms:
When I spoke with Andie at Fanfest, the idea that was being bounced around for Drilling Platforms was to fill in the spectrum from fully active (e.g. mining with a mining barge) to fully passive (e.g. mining moon goo with a starbase) resource gathering. There are no firm game designs for this yet, but each platform could require a different level of player interaction. With that in mind and knowing that Drilling Platforms are early in development, it's possible that they could fulfill the nomadic player's roles nicely. To do that they would require:

  • Must be anchorable close to objects, so we can place them right inside an asteroid belt or other place. They might even require a certain type of object to anchor onto, such as an asteroid.
  • Must be at least one platform type that can be anchored and unanchored within an hour so we can potentially sneak them into places. The down side might be a fuel cost.
  • Must have the tethering mechanic for nearby idle ships so they can be used as safespots.


We can be pretty sure that drilling platforms will be partially automated (e.g. asteroid miner needing emptied every 20 mins), but I'd also love to see them give area-effect bonuses to mining etc to encourage players to use them while they're actively playing. The platforms could also have very short weekly vulnerability windows but become vulnerable while in use and for a short time after use.

That way we'll be able to build up resource-gathering infrastructure throughout a system and know it's safe to leave it there, but if we're caught using it then the structure could be destroyed. With a short anchor timer, we'd be able to sneak one into a system relatively easily unless caught in the act and either pack it up (good for nomadic lifestyle!) or leave it out there to use again later (good for world-shaping), so they could very well cover the nomadic lifestyle use cases.

Thoughts? Should we get a stripped down fast-deploying Nomadic Astrahus or is this something that Drilling Platforms can solve if it gets the right mix of features?
Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines
#39 - 2016-05-07 02:59:20 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:

You can carry a small or medium pos in a blockade runner now.

Do you see many being used as a staging post anywhere in null? Honestly, how many players do you see using a pos how you describe it?

Like a lot of others, I don't care if it ain't fun or engaging for others hunting me.

I see this is going to be another thread where if we ain't willing to become a static target to provide "content" we must be playing wrong

I believe my alliance has killed 3 staging POS in the last month. Plenty of groups use a small pos for that purpose. They are fairly cheap and easy to deploy. A citadel would have taken several days to deploy due to the ADM.

You may not care if your activities are engaging to other players but those other players do, and so does CCP. This should not turn into an us vs them kind of argument but both sides need to see things from each other's perspective. What happens in wormhole space doesn't stay in wormhole space. The same can be said for nullsec power blocs.

DMC wrote:
I'm curious as to when that philosophy changed. Don't suppose you have a link to an Official CCP statement on that? I wouldn't be surprised if it was a CCP Dev who actually voiced their own opinion and wasn't actually speaking for the company. Now if it is true then it's definitely a recent change which might explain the past few game releases.

I don't think there is any official statement, but as you have pointed out and others have observed CCP seems to be trying to push players out of their static and invincible structures into slightly less static but destructible structures. Some players are making that move and some are not. I think CCP will continue pushing through things like taxes and other mechanics until they are happy with the number of players living in them.

As others have stated we will need to wait and see what CCP has in store and continue giving feedback on their ideas. I don't want to see anyone's play style removed but I think we are all going to have to accept some changes to them.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#40 - 2016-05-07 03:25:45 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Tzar Sinak wrote:
The gas harvesters were attached to a ship in the Orca. The Orca never left the safe spot and was equipped with a cloak when not immediately needed. When it was time for the Orca pilot to gather his PI, he switched ships with a character on the other account.

The gas and ore was handled else where.


What part of the Orca let you run reactions with that gas?

Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE

Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!

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