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Fleet Warp - Make it require pilot is not AFK
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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2016-05-06 00:47:09 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

I did say mouse movements.

So really, pretty much everyone will get the warp. They're either hitting alt+tab to browse other websites, or are typing in chat, or maybe they're spinning the camera around to look at space. Except Fred. Fred didn't get the warp because he is backed away from his computer and hasn't even bumped the mouse for a while. He is putting a lot more focus on his sandwich than what's happening in fleet chat. In a way, Fred really is AFK, though.


Or hit alt tab or switched to another screen to watch netflix depending on the activity. If it is a POS bash I might click to get my guns/launchers firing again...unless I'm flying amarr and I don't even have to do that.

Finding the truly AFK and letting them sit on the grid and die...fine. Thing is we can't do that without letting lots of other people die too who are not AFK.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-05-06 00:50:26 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:

On one hand, you don't want people being warped in to a fight just to be an easy killmail. I can understand this. However, at the same time you're suggesting a mechanic that will actively punish people who thought they had time to get a sandwich, until something unexpected happened and the fleet needed to move.


Good point, wanting one's cake and eating it too is silly. This makes the detection problem at least an order of magnitude harder if not several orders of magnitude harder.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-05-06 00:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Teckos Pech wrote:
Or hit alt tab or switched to another screen to watch netflix depending on the activity. If it is a POS bash I might click to get my guns/launchers firing again...unless I'm flying amarr and I don't even have to do that.

Finding the truly AFK and letting them sit on the grid and die...fine. Thing is we can't do that without letting lots of other people die too who are not AFK.

So if you're shooting a POS and watching Netflix, you're not AFK? While you may be technically at your keyboard, it seems you're engaged in some activity other than playing EVE--which is what I'm getting at. Why should Netflixers not be penalized for the same sort of activities as people who physically leave their computer? You already have the advantage of being able to return to your game quickly as soon as someone shouts over Mumble that something is about to happen. If you choose to sit there and keep watching your show while the FC is trying to warp everyone out, then you really shouldn't get that fleetwarp. Now if you return immediately and miss the fleetwarp because it only went out once, then that's just bad FCing.


Teckos Pech wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:

On one hand, you don't want people being warped in to a fight just to be an easy killmail. I can understand this. However, at the same time you're suggesting a mechanic that will actively punish people who thought they had time to get a sandwich, until something unexpected happened and the fleet needed to move.


Good point, wanting one's cake and eating it too is silly. This makes the detection problem at least an order of magnitude harder if not several orders of magnitude harder.

So make it five minutes, or suggest some other time frame. I'm not here to debate what length of time it should be, I even said as much in the original post.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-05-10 16:13:49 UTC
Same opinion here as in any other related thread: I don't care if a guy is AFK or not. Whatever happens to his ship while he's not issueing commands is his problem.

If that means getting killed, so be it.
If that means a buddy can warp him out when he says on TS he's about to get his socket closed, cool.
If that means someone bounces you from safe to safe to allow a 2 minute bio break in hostile space, great.

Why do people always want to enforce non-AFKness?
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
#25 - 2016-05-11 18:54:47 UTC
Agondray wrote:
oh lets add to your idea, after your 1 min afk timer your ship instantly self destructs taking your pod in the explosion with no time to transfer your clone.


Excellent idea, but needs one refinement -- that the loot can be marked as belonging to the attacker, not the ship owner.
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
#26 - 2016-05-11 18:57:25 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Finding the truly AFK and letting them sit on the grid and die...fine. Thing is we can't do that without letting lots of other people die too who are not AFK.


EvE is harsh -- if you don't like that, I hear "Hello Kitty" (TM) want subscribers.
People die every day -- this way AFK-ers die every few minutes.
And they get a FREE rookie ship, too.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-05-12 10:41:14 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Why do people always want to enforce non-AFKness?

I don't see how it's really enforcing it. You can still take breaks within the timer. You can also cloak up for a longer break. Or you could, you know, dock up or get inside a POS shield. I just want to move away from being able to have someone else play for you.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2016-05-12 11:22:19 UTC
Dude, let me rephrase it.

NO MORE TIMERS. Please. Mechanics ought to be simple -- something is or it is not. I don't need fineprint detailing the exact conditions when a state may change behind my back; I'm not a space lawyer.

Me being in a fleet, flagged to Accept fleet warp is detailed enough.
When FC Warps Fleet, the fleet is supposed to warp. Simultaneously - that's what it's there for.

And this, mind you, coming from someone used to small gangs where we warp ourselves. Just don't clutter up perfectly good mechanics for no reason at all, okay?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#29 - 2016-05-12 11:55:11 UTC
Automation programs will just add a reasonable input every 59 seconds to beat the timer.

1 minute would more than likely lead to a lot of senseless slaughter on gates and wh. While senseless slaughter is good clean fun I think that overall folks would be discouraged over time to join fleets. Every FC would need a 1 minute timer running and have to keep prodding his fleet to make inputs. What a hassle. Over time I don't see how this would help the game. It's actually pretty difficult to manually do something (anything) once every minute. It comes up occasionally where I work that this sort of activity must be done. At the end of the day - the guy doing it is exhausted (the IT is pushing a button - nothing physically difficult). I don't think coding exhaustion into the game is a good idea.

The game needs more ways to get folks to want to fight. It doesn't need more ways to leave 'afk' guys hanging. Things like WWB are cool things that draw folks to pvp. Getting ganked on a gate because you had to pee/smoke/talk to your parents on the phone/climax (all but the last most deffo take more than 1 minute) is not fun or engaging game play.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-05-12 11:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Serendipity Lost wrote:
1 minute would more than likely lead to a lot of senseless slaughter on gates and wh. While senseless slaughter is good clean fun I think that overall folks would be discouraged over time to join fleets. Every FC would need a 1 minute timer running and have to keep prodding his fleet to make inputs. What a hassle.

I didn't say a 1 minute timer. I said a timer of some amount of time, for example 1 minute. Not the same thing. The amount of time is up for discussion. Don't base your support for the proposal on the amount of time I gave in the example because it's not even part of the suggestion.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#31 - 2016-05-12 12:03:18 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
1 minute would more than likely lead to a lot of senseless slaughter on gates and wh. While senseless slaughter is good clean fun I think that overall folks would be discouraged over time to join fleets. Every FC would need a 1 minute timer running and have to keep prodding his fleet to make inputs. What a hassle.

I didn't say a 1 minute timer. I said a timer of some amount of time, for example 1 minute. Not the same thing. The amount of time is up for discussion. Don't base your support for the proposal on the amount of time I gave in the example because it's not even part of the suggestion.



2 minutes sucks, 8 minutes sucks. (I've done both and after 2 hours you learn to hate it). You're right, it isn't the length of time involved - it is that you are enslaved to a timer. You have to (in addition to what you are trying to do) keep a running clock in your head or (worse yet) set some alarm that commands you to take an action. You gain a master that you must obey - and it's a stupid one. There just isn't a reward to the player for being shackled by a timer.

You have a lot of ideas dude - this isn't a good one.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#32 - 2016-05-12 12:05:23 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
1 minute would more than likely lead to a lot of senseless slaughter on gates and wh. While senseless slaughter is good clean fun I think that overall folks would be discouraged over time to join fleets. Every FC would need a 1 minute timer running and have to keep prodding his fleet to make inputs. What a hassle.

I didn't say a 1 minute timer. I said a timer of some amount of time, for example 1 minute. Not the same thing. The amount of time is up for discussion. Don't base your support for the proposal on the amount of time I gave in the example because it's not even part of the suggestion.



The hassle isn't the major problem. As the rest of my post explains (what, you just selectively quoted??) it's that folks will become exhausted for no real benefit to the game.
Kieron VonDeux
#33 - 2016-05-12 13:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kieron VonDeux
I think there should be an active user input to accept Fleet Warps, maybe a 3 sec popup to accept where you would be able to rejoin fleet in fleet warp.

Another option would be the Fleet Warp would advertise the destination location and others would warp themselves to it. Seems more realistic.

A FC on his own should not be able to warp up to 249 other ships without user input from the others.

As well, min warp distance should be something like 10,000 km instead of only 150 km with a cool down between warps. Make the choice to warp mean more and give sub light speeds more of a reason than just aligning for the larger ships.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#34 - 2016-05-12 13:26:20 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
I think there should be an active user input to accept Fleet Warps, maybe a 3 sec popup to accept where you would be able to rejoin fleet in fleet warp.

Another option would be the Fleet Warp would advertise the destination location and others would warp themselves to it. Seems more realistic.

A FC on his own should not be able to warp up to 249 other ships without user input from the others.

As well, min warp distance should be something like 10,000 km instead of only 150 km with a cool down between warps. Make the choice to warp mean more and give sub light speeds more of a reason than just aligning for the larger ships.




OOOPH.....


are you trying to break pvp?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#35 - 2016-05-12 13:54:04 UTC
Reaver, this idea falls into the same category as most of your other ideas: pointless and bad. You are applying an overly complicated solution to a nonexistent problem.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#36 - 2016-05-12 14:47:46 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Reaver, this idea falls into the same category as most of your other ideas: pointless and bad. You are applying an overly complicated solution to a nonexistent problem.



I've often wondered if you are Reaver. That perhaps this whole back and forth between the two of you isn't the internet courtship it appears to be, but perhaps some bizarre forum theater piece that you are duping us into playing a part.

Are you a forum theater mastermind OR do you have a picture of you and reaver hanging out together to prove you aren't the same person????
Kieron VonDeux
#37 - 2016-05-12 16:34:48 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

OOOPH.....


are you trying to break pvp?



Frequently you have to break things in order to make them better.

I realize that depends on what you think is better. P
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#38 - 2016-05-12 17:24:36 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:

OOOPH.....


are you trying to break pvp?



Frequently you have to break things in order to make them better.

I realize that depends on what you think is better. P




If you break a glass - you can go to the cupboard and get a new one.

If you break the core of an mmo - players will go find a new game.
Kieron VonDeux
#39 - 2016-05-12 18:10:13 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:

OOOPH.....


are you trying to break pvp?



Frequently you have to break things in order to make them better.

I realize that depends on what you think is better. P




If you break a glass - you can go to the cupboard and get a new one.

If you break the core of an mmo - players will go find a new game.


That's if you don't fix it after you break it.
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
#40 - 2016-05-12 19:03:38 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
1 minute would more than likely lead to a lot of senseless slaughter on gates and wh. While senseless slaughter is good clean fun I think that overall folks would be discouraged over time to join fleets. Every FC would need a 1 minute timer running and have to keep prodding his fleet to make inputs. What a hassle.

I didn't say a 1 minute timer. I said a timer of some amount of time, for example 1 minute. Not the same thing. The amount of time is up for discussion. Don't base your support for the proposal on the amount of time I gave in the example because it's not even part of the suggestion.



2 minutes sucks, 8 minutes sucks. (I've done both and after 2 hours you learn to hate it). You're right, it isn't the length of time involved - it is that you are enslaved to a timer. You have to (in addition to what you are trying to do) keep a running clock in your head or (worse yet) set some alarm that commands you to take an action. You gain a master that you must obey - and it's a stupid one. There just isn't a reward to the player for being shackled by a timer.

You have a lot of ideas dude - this isn't a good one.

With respect, no -- you don't have to watch a timer, if you're Playing The Game. It is the AFKers who will need to watch timers.
Anyone who wishes to admit being one, I can arrange with you where and when to leave your stuf for me, and you can got back to playing Real Life TM
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