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Lack of new content for 0.5 to 1.0 space

First post
Author
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
#121 - 2016-05-04 21:31:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I want to pick up my monitor and hurl it every time one of these "high sec is pve space" people post. There is no such thing as PVE space and PVP space. There is New Eden, where pve and pvp go hand in hand, even in high sec.

The fact that the OP prefers to play solo and 'has no interest' playing outside of the safety of high sec does not change any of the above.

Preach.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2016-05-05 02:41:23 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
The problem with PvE is that it needs a complete overhaul, rework and rethink. Badly.

If you ask me personally, PvE missions needs to be made fully dynamic and unpredictable. Basically CCP should strive to completely nullify the PvE guides that exist by adding different random elements and such.


To break it down:

AI:

Sleeper AI at the very minimum. Preferably add even more features here. NPC's should not be restricted to instances either but go beyond.
Regardless of difficulty, the AI must be top-notch at all times. CCP claims they want to give players full freedom. Well, strive to give NPC's full freedom as well and then exploit the hell out of it. As far as I am concerned this is a vital pillar for making PvE a next-gen thing. For example, depending on the mission/situation/sheer randomness there should be cases where NPC's REALLY want you dead and will not hesitate to chase your ass down.



I lived in null for ~10 months, most days I triggered an escalation from anom farming or from an unrated, , even if it is a simple 1 stage escalation to a escalation version of a normal ded plex, the escalation placement has sufficient smarts to (a) put it in a different region if it can and (b) choose hostile if it can. As it turned out, I lived ~3 jumps from neutral space and 6 from hostile, so that is where my escalations went (since the min range was 5-6).

So what thing do you think happened, when I went to do my escalations?

Gate camps, chases, combat probes on d-scan, waiting out known dangerous pilots, doing it the next day racing the timer, doing escalations with neuts in system and relying on d-scan to stay safe, bouncing the d-scan range back and forth to check the neuts wasn't moving, even shooting my wrecks if necessary so to ensure the escalation location couldn't be found if I was forced to hide, running back home through camps with 1b+ in mods in cargo.

All fun and random stuff, as player encounters tend to be. CCP doesn't need to invent this into missions, its already in the game.

---

There are simpler (safer, cheaper) versions of that game available to you - the simplest being highsec deds where you can contest by being fast at finding plexes, by being fast at clearing plexes, and if you find one with other players in it, attempting to tag the overseers, and then you can choose to steal if you fail to tag it, chances are your opponent will fail to stop you warping out with the goodies.

There is also a massive spectrum of risk / reward escalation from high to low and probing related activities in lowsec, since there are regular stations and highsec islands in low areas, there is a massive set of conceivable solutions - prior to being able to fly the t3, I used to blockade run (ie covert cloak haul) hacs (that couldn't covert cloak) into areas to use whenever I wanted to probe or escalate in the area.

Quote:



Accessibility:

Missions should not be restricted to agents only. In fact, random scenarios that are directed at players should appear as they are in flight.



probe launcher.

Quote:


Players could then always choose whether to accept or decline.....or perhaps even be forced into a random situation in rare cases. Hey, this is EVE after all. Then extend this even further: 2 corps/alliances/whatever have a huge fight somewhere in null. Throw in a rare chance where a large NPC force joins in as a third party for whatever reason.



ah yeah, I want to go through the logistics of having hundreds of people in the right ships together online at the same time to make a major attack and have the game roll a massive random dice saying, no matter how good, well scouted, and planned my attack strategy is, the game is going to bend it over the kitchen table and give it a random jolly rogering up its most tender passage. Thought level in this one : nil.

Quote:

Mission types:

Escort missions - this one has probably been suggested to death by now. Heck, you could even have partial successful states, if the escorted target gets destroyed you could still scoop up survivors or whatever and get a reduced reward. Again "dynamic" is the key word here.

Rescue missions - similar to escort - keep NPC ships alive basically but under different circumstances.



Move your stuff to valuable areas in a blockade runner, its the same thing really - reward is not losing your stuff. A few years ago, I found an untowered plat moon in aridia, and when the market kicked up as it does, I "escorted" the tower in, and then "escorted" the goo out once once a week for a lot of reward.

I pretty much sell most of the b-type coreli remote reps in dodixie since I'm farming the b-type loot table with this character for injects, buy them from me, fit them to a healing frigate and keep your friends alive in lowsec.

Quote:


Base/outpost/whatever defensive/offensive missions. To spice it up even further you could add elements from null-sec sov mechanics.

Battles: why oh why do we never see different NPC factions duking it out with one another? It doesn't have to be a common occurrence but it definitely would liven things up.



get some friends and try contest some fozzie sov. You mightn't hold it for long, but IMO the scale of effort required to pinch some thinly held territory right now is nowhere near as terrible as it used to be.

ie why not take part, or failing that, why not look on the eve map for combat and go watch it.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#123 - 2016-05-05 03:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
The problem with PvE is that it needs a complete overhaul, rework and rethink. Badly.

If you ask me personally, PvE missions needs to be made fully dynamic and unpredictable. Basically CCP should strive to completely nullify the PvE guides that exist by adding different random elements and such.


To break it down:

AI:

Sleeper AI at the very minimum. Preferably add even more features here. NPC's should not be restricted to instances either but go beyond.
Regardless of difficulty, the AI must be top-notch at all times. CCP claims they want to give players full freedom. Well, strive to give NPC's full freedom as well and then exploit the hell out of it. As far as I am concerned this is a vital pillar for making PvE a next-gen thing. For example, depending on the mission/situation/sheer randomness there should be cases where NPC's REALLY want you dead and will not hesitate to chase your ass down.

Accessibility:

Missions should not be restricted to agents only. In fact, random scenarios that are directed at players should appear as they are in flight. Players could then always choose whether to accept or decline.....or perhaps even be forced into a random situation in rare cases. Hey, this is EVE after all. Then extend this even further: 2 corps/alliances/whatever have a huge fight somewhere in null. Throw in a rare chance where a large NPC force joins in as a third party for whatever reason.

Mission types:

Escort missions - this one has probably been suggested to death by now. Heck, you could even have partial successful states, if the escorted target gets destroyed you could still scoop up survivors or whatever and get a reduced reward. Again "dynamic" is the key word here.

Rescue missions - similar to escort - keep NPC ships alive basically but under different circumstances.

Base/outpost/whatever defensive/offensive missions. To spice it up even further you could add elements from null-sec sov mechanics.

Battles: why oh why do we never see different NPC factions duking it out with one another? It doesn't have to be a common occurrence but it definitely would liven things up.



All in all, there is so much that can be done with PvE but only if CCP is willing to really release NPC factions and such completely into the universe. Current PvE setup is so ancient and it doesn't even have to be.





This is a perfect example of 'conventional wisdom' about PVE. And like a lot of conventional wisdom, it's completely wrong. It's expecting PVE to provide the kind of randomness (and thus interest/fun) that isn't even possible for PVE to do, and that is already available in the form of real people. CCP (God bless em) hasn't been able to complete walking in stations, atmospheric flight, WoD etc and DUST was lack luster. Who in their right minds think they can pull off PVE on the level imagined in the above post?

The worst thing about the ideas in this post is that some PVE types think they want it. Like they thought they wanted incursions (the very few people do at any given time), like they thought they wanted more advanced AI (like the drifters most PVErs avoid like the plague) and mini games in exploration and "epic" missions etc etc. But look at the pve most people actually do.....


.....old Missions and anoms/DED and unrated complexes created generally before 2006, content filled with dumb AI and repetition and predictability. That might not be the exciting thing to say, but THAT is what EVE PVErs go for (I sure as hell do). Look at Dotlan maps, see where the NPC kills are and ask yourself "what kind of PVE is there". Not trying to beat up on this poster, but these ideas are literally the "New Coke of PVE thinking".
xpl0de
Caldari State
#124 - 2016-05-05 05:38:48 UTC
I know you like to play alone OP but why don't you try out incursions? You'll get to do what you enjoy with people, lots of iskies, and potentially make friends...gasp.
Why anyone would run lvl 4's for years on end is beyond me.

-10.0 since the Womb

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#125 - 2016-05-05 07:01:35 UTC
xpl0de wrote:
I know you like to play alone OP but why don't you try out incursions? You'll get to do what you enjoy with people, lots of iskies, and potentially make friends...gasp.
Why anyone would run lvl 4's for years on end is beyond me.


Experimentation with different hulls and fits, mostly. It's the only challenge they offer and this keeps people busy for a couple of years or so.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#126 - 2016-05-05 09:41:00 UTC
At least the missions have good music (eve has sound).

PvE needs an expansion... the whole of it, not only in high sec. Maybe in 2047, when we get player built stargates and new systems.
Nihilaus Vause
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#127 - 2016-05-05 11:17:49 UTC
Just imagine all the other players in space are secretly NPCS and enjoy your PVE as you try to blow them up / avoid getting blown up by them.

Then you'll have an awesome PVE system with the randomness and creative content you desire.



Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2016-05-05 11:39:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


I killed more rats yesterday than most EVE players will kill in a year. If Rat killin was a war crime I'd be arrested and taken to the Hague, and convicted before any Balkan Head of State could be .

I'm a PVE focused player, pvp is a sideline and something I do to help my bros, but it's not why I log in. I'm sure I'm one of the more prolific posters in the Missions and Complexes forum, which in addition to being the home of EVE PVE is also a place where most of you types who complain about PVE do not post lol.

While you are here complaining about CCP not catering to the already over-indulged and over-privileged solo PVErs of high sec, real PVE players are killing NPCs in interesting ways (while NOT dying to try-hard PVPrs) and having fun doing it outside of high sec..


Jenn aSide wrote:


You could run lvl 4 missions from right now till doomsday, you probably wouldn't catch up to me. While old people were walking uphill in the snow to get to school, I was saving the Damsel and Stopping the Thief for the millionth time.



Want a medal ?

Considering the devotion to big-noting yourself and insulting those you disagree with on the forums, actually getting around to engaging in "real PVE" must represent a herculean effort.

Josef Djugashvilis
#129 - 2016-05-05 12:32:47 UTC
Hopeless trolling by the OP.

If the OP is being serious, perhaps he should actually log into the game.

This is not a signature.

Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2016-05-05 13:08:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

This is a perfect example of 'conventional wisdom' about PVE. And like a lot of conventional wisdom, it's completely wrong. It's expecting PVE to provide the kind of randomness (and thus interest/fun) that isn't even possible for PVE to do, and that is already available in the form of real people. CCP (God bless em) hasn't been able to complete walking in stations, atmospheric flight, WoD etc and DUST was lack luster. Who in their right minds think they can pull off PVE on the level imagined in the above post?

The worst thing about the ideas in this post is that some PVE types think they want it. Like they thought they wanted incursions (the very few people do at any given time), like they thought they wanted more advanced AI (like the drifters most PVErs avoid like the plague) and mini games in exploration and "epic" missions etc etc. But look at the pve most people actually do.....


.....old Missions and anoms/DED and unrated complexes created generally before 2006, content filled with dumb AI and repetition and predictability. That might not be the exciting thing to say, but THAT is what EVE PVErs go for (I sure as hell do). Look at Dotlan maps, see where the NPC kills are and ask yourself "what kind of PVE is there". Not trying to beat up on this poster, but these ideas are literally the "New Coke of PVE thinking".


So you claim to speak for all PvE players? Funny how I pretty much stopped doing PvE for the very reasons that you claim PvErs do their stuff.

Sheesh, you'd be an excellent spokesman for General Motors or some such. The mentality is definitely there at least.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#131 - 2016-05-05 13:41:37 UTC
CCP aren't the people who create content in highsec.

That job belongs to groups like my friends in CODE, the mercenaries, the scammers, the POS demolition crews, and the odd pirate that will try to ransom your mission completion item. All the people that provide the same risk of loss and potential for gain you experience when fighting an NPC, but without the terrible AI.

If you want to be part of the solution, why not get into highsec content creation yourself?

Create a mission running corp, recruit people to it, then turn rogue and start killing your new 'friends' and stealing their loot. Shoot a miner and pod them. Get into a fight with Marmites.

Create memorable interactions in highsec and you are creating content. That is what EVE is about.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2016-05-05 13:50:48 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
CCP aren't the people who create content in highsec.

That job belongs to groups like my friends in CODE, the mercenaries, the scammers, the POS demolition crews, and the odd pirate that will try to ransom your mission completion item. All the people that provide the same risk of loss and potential for gain you experience when fighting an NPC, but without the terrible AI.

If you want to be part of the solution, why not get into highsec content creation yourself?

Create a mission running corp, recruit people to it, then turn rogue and start killing your new 'friends' and stealing their loot. Shoot a miner and pod them. Get into a fight with Marmites.

Create memorable interactions in highsec and you are creating content. That is what EVE is about.


Who says that those activities are the only ones that are legitimate sources of content? Or perhaps you are advocating for a complete removal of all NPC's, all factions and missions etc? Cause let's be honest - how much content are those currently providing anyway?

Losing a decent chunk of players is a small price to pay for player only content.
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#133 - 2016-05-05 14:32:16 UTC
Yea I really dont understand you lot ffs...OP I hear you ! Look man im a PVER sometime its nice to just lose yourself in your own immersion when you just had enough of people pissing in their panties on mumble or ts. WE need more PVE content CCP.

Oh and dont tell me to go and look for content ...cause when you were still in diapers I already had my own sov.

People complain about the player base not being big enough....IF CCP focused a bit more on a balanced approach I can almost double guarantee you a 100 % increase in Eve players...

Oh and pis off in advance...
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#134 - 2016-05-05 14:36:01 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
CCP aren't the people who create content in highsec.

That job belongs to groups like my friends in CODE, the mercenaries, the scammers, the POS demolition crews, and the odd pirate that will try to ransom your mission completion item. All the people that provide the same risk of loss and potential for gain you experience when fighting an NPC, but without the terrible AI.

If you want to be part of the solution, why not get into highsec content creation yourself?

Create a mission running corp, recruit people to it, then turn rogue and start killing your new 'friends' and stealing their loot. Shoot a miner and pod them. Get into a fight with Marmites.

Create memorable interactions in highsec and you are creating content. That is what EVE is about.


Today I learned anyone who isn't interested in doing nothing but PvP has no place in EVE.

Thank you for telling me how to spend my time in a sandbox game. You've been very helpful.
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2016-05-05 14:43:49 UTC
I like to play sandbox games by telling others how to play and that their way is wrong. Who are you to demean my chosen play-style? It's a sandbox! I can't be wrong!

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy

Varathius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2016-05-05 16:05:47 UTC
Alternatively, move to anywhere but highsec, and go back there once they do something again for it. Game has additional content, not just highsec.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#137 - 2016-05-05 16:42:37 UTC
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I like to play sandbox games by telling others how to play and that their way is wrong. Who are you to demean my chosen play-style? It's a sandbox! I can't be wrong!



I don't think you should tell people how to play either but neither should you exclude a large portion of your player base through game design

Any solo players trying to PVE vs Drifters have been excluded by design
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#138 - 2016-05-05 16:53:04 UTC
Tasspool Harp wrote:


Want a medal ?

Considering the devotion to big-noting yourself and insulting those you disagree with on the forums, actually getting around to engaging in "real PVE" must represent a herculean effort.



I don't need a medal, I got isk from all those rats. And let me tell you son, you haven't seen an insult from me. If you think you have, that just means your sensibilities are a bit too tender for the forum you chose to post on.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#139 - 2016-05-05 17:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

This is a perfect example of 'conventional wisdom' about PVE. And like a lot of conventional wisdom, it's completely wrong. It's expecting PVE to provide the kind of randomness (and thus interest/fun) that isn't even possible for PVE to do, and that is already available in the form of real people. CCP (God bless em) hasn't been able to complete walking in stations, atmospheric flight, WoD etc and DUST was lack luster. Who in their right minds think they can pull off PVE on the level imagined in the above post?

The worst thing about the ideas in this post is that some PVE types think they want it. Like they thought they wanted incursions (the very few people do at any given time), like they thought they wanted more advanced AI (like the drifters most PVErs avoid like the plague) and mini games in exploration and "epic" missions etc etc. But look at the pve most people actually do.....


.....old Missions and anoms/DED and unrated complexes created generally before 2006, content filled with dumb AI and repetition and predictability. That might not be the exciting thing to say, but THAT is what EVE PVErs go for (I sure as hell do). Look at Dotlan maps, see where the NPC kills are and ask yourself "what kind of PVE is there". Not trying to beat up on this poster, but these ideas are literally the "New Coke of PVE thinking".


So you claim to speak for all PvE players? Funny how I pretty much stopped doing PvE for the very reasons that you claim PvErs do their stuff.

Sheesh, you'd be an excellent spokesman for General Motors or some such. The mentality is definitely there at least.


So in other words, you don't have anything to say about what I actually posted, so you resort to this kind of butt hurt BS. That's unfortunately typical.

The conventional wisdom about PVE is wrong. The game itself proves it (I'm serious, look at the numbers of us who do the old stupid repetitive PVE rather than the new shiny "improved AI" stuff). Listening to you "expand PVE" people would be one of the dumbest things CCP could do, because you don't actually know what you want from PVE.

Most of you with these snazzy "Improve PVE" ideas would be right back to rescuing Damsels within a month of any PVE patch (while complaining about the need for EVEN MORE new PVE stuff). And CCP would have wasted all that time and money and effort for nothing.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#140 - 2016-05-05 17:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Jenn aSide wrote:
The worst thing about the ideas in this post is that some PVE types think they want it. Like they thought they wanted incursions (the very few people do at any given time), like they thought they wanted more advanced AI (like the drifters most PVErs avoid like the plague) and mini games in exploration and "epic" missions etc etc. But look at the pve most people actually do.....


.....old Missions and anoms/DED and unrated complexes created generally before 2006, content filled with dumb AI and repetition and predictability. That might not be the exciting thing to say, but THAT is what EVE PVErs go for (I sure as hell do). Look at Dotlan maps, see where the NPC kills are and ask yourself "what kind of PVE is there". Not trying to beat up on this poster, but these ideas are literally the "New Coke of PVE thinking".

/Thread

Edit: CCP should rename the damsel, put in some blue clouds, triple spawns and sell it as new content. Problem solved.

Edit2: Better not triple spawns. People may start to decline the mission if it takes too long. Double is enough.

Remove standings and insurance.