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POSES and Citadels, Nomadic Lifestyle

First post
Author
Imustbecomfused
Illicit Expo
#1 - 2016-05-05 02:26:23 UTC
So I was wondering the other hour ago... I been using a POS to set up in systems that are unoccupied mostly, for shelter and protection and access to the resources in that system. I like the idea that citadels are bigger and even better than POSes, but... they take a while to online... they are huge, they are visible easily, they are expensive (relatively speaking), and they will attract a lot of attention.

So, What to those that do not want such attention? What will be available to us that farm systems solo or in small gangs, that still need defense, and offensive measures? Myself, I love going out to scan and roll for empty wh systems full of anomalies! and Scanning around to see if there is a POS up. If not, don't mind if I make myself at home. Ill suck all that up in a day or a weeks time... Harvest that gas, mine that ore. Blitz those sites! .... Then pack up and leave to the next. Using smaller ships a mobile base... Orca, Carrier... even Deepspace Transports. All I need, with room for a weeks salvage.

With this in mind, there must be others too. that rely on the use of the POS, its easy to setup, and to carry around, for temporary means ofc, even considering all the pain in the ass with the guns and fuel and stront and access passwords for alts... etc. I am wondering CCP, will you make a replacement for the standard POS for us nomads to use... It doenst have to be much but it should deploy no longer than a regular pos, and it should require some kind of input fuel, ... but also come down quick and easy, and pack up tight in my transport... :)

If not, Dropping a citadel to run sites is crazy... that will be the first thing people come for when seen in system. I like that POSes hide among the moons, and are hard to find, for those not savvy with scanners and all.... :) Like, They areally do function in many ways, for several play styles, What is there to replace poses with such intentions in mind?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-05-05 03:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Citadels are only the first of several structures and they are specifically designed as a stable and defendable home for stuff.

Mining, manufacture, research, etc are all planned to be supported by other structures.

So I hope in planning ahead, CCP do create something for the space gypsy; because I think there are a lot more nomads out there than get noticed.

+1 OP for the hope that CCP do provide a suitable structure to support a more nomadic life.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-05-05 04:41:11 UTC
Agree with the OP.

Just make sure it fits inside a Blockade Runner.



DMC
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-05-05 07:00:11 UTC
Agreed op.

But, sadly, it appears CCP have closed their collective eyes and ears to the fact that there is a play style outside of the power blocs/alliance/super corp.

I'm hoping that with the other platforms coming in Autumn they turn out similar to a pos. Easy up, easy down, mobile etc.

Anything else will make them as attractive as a Citadel is for a one man/small corp.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines
#5 - 2016-05-05 09:10:52 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Agreed op.

But, sadly, it appears CCP have closed their collective eyes and ears to the fact that there is a play style outside of the power blocs/alliance/super corp.

I'm hoping that with the other platforms coming in Autumn they turn out similar to a pos. Easy up, easy down, mobile etc.

Anything else will make them as attractive as a Citadel is for a one man/small corp.


I don't think that they have forgotten about you types. I think the main problem is what can everyone that plays this game do with the tools they introduce.

Imagine you have something that has a shield around it like a pos, can fit in a blockade runner, and is easily deployable. Can you see any place in nullsec that something like that would be used? That would be a massive boost to safety for any attacking enemy. You would also be able to carry one in any capital ship now since they all have a fleet hanger. Every carrier and dread could have their own little bubble of safety. What if a mission flipper pokes the wrong bear and now has hostiles in system trying to kill him? He can just drop his safety bubble and ride out his timer, or maybe he had a safety bubble predropped he can just hide away in. Something that may be great for one part of space could greatly imbalance other parts.

Currently CCP wants people to have a connection to the items they deploy in space. They want you to put your assets at risk for the reward you are collecting. Running and hiding into a pos shield when something pops up on dscan is not putting your assets at risk. Having a pos tower that is going to be under a reinforcement timer for at least a day is not fun or engaging to the people hunting you.

They have introduced the mobile depot, mobile scan inhibitor, and possibly some other devices I can't remember to assist in the gypsy lifestyle. I am not saying your play style is wrong or anything, but I don't think it is the direction CCP wants its players to go. I think CCP feels parts of the game are too safe at the moment and are looking to change that.

KL
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-05-05 09:53:01 UTC
Kyra Lee wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Agreed op.

But, sadly, it appears CCP have closed their collective eyes and ears to the fact that there is a play style outside of the power blocs/alliance/super corp.

I'm hoping that with the other platforms coming in Autumn they turn out similar to a pos. Easy up, easy down, mobile etc.

Anything else will make them as attractive as a Citadel is for a one man/small corp.


I don't think that they have forgotten about you types. I think the main problem is what can everyone that plays this game do with the tools they introduce.

Imagine you have something that has a shield around it like a pos, can fit in a blockade runner, and is easily deployable. Can you see any place in nullsec that something like that would be used? That would be a massive boost to safety for any attacking enemy. You would also be able to carry one in any capital ship now since they all have a fleet hanger. Every carrier and dread could have their own little bubble of safety. What if a mission flipper pokes the wrong bear and now has hostiles in system trying to kill him? He can just drop his safety bubble and ride out his timer, or maybe he had a safety bubble predropped he can just hide away in. Something that may be great for one part of space could greatly imbalance other parts.

Currently CCP wants people to have a connection to the items they deploy in space. They want you to put your assets at risk for the reward you are collecting. Running and hiding into a pos shield when something pops up on dscan is not putting your assets at risk. Having a pos tower that is going to be under a reinforcement timer for at least a day is not fun or engaging to the people hunting you.

They have introduced the mobile depot, mobile scan inhibitor, and possibly some other devices I can't remember to assist in the gypsy lifestyle. I am not saying your play style is wrong or anything, but I don't think it is the direction CCP wants its players to go. I think CCP feels parts of the game are too safe at the moment and are looking to change that.

KL



You can carry a small or medium pos in a blockade runner now.

Do you see many being used as a staging post anywhere in null? Honestly, how many players do you see using a pos how you describe it?

Like a lot of others, I don't care if it ain't fun or engaging for others hunting me.

I see this is going to be another thread where if we ain't willing to become a static target to provide "content" we must be playing wrong

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#7 - 2016-05-05 10:31:57 UTC
Removed an off topic post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-05-05 11:10:43 UTC
Kyra Lee wrote:


Currently CCP wants people to have a connection to the items they deploy in space. They want you to put your assets at risk for the reward you are collecting. Running and hiding into a pos shield when something pops up on dscan is not putting your assets at risk. Having a pos tower that is going to be under a reinforcement timer for at least a day is not fun or engaging to the people hunting you.

They have introduced the mobile depot, mobile scan inhibitor, and possibly some other devices I can't remember to assist in the gypsy lifestyle. I am not saying your play style is wrong or anything, but I don't think it is the direction CCP wants its players to go. I think CCP feels parts of the game are too safe at the moment and are looking to change that.

KL

When I started playing this game 8 years ago, CCP always said they would never dictate how players should play this game. All they would do is provide the tools and watch what the playerbase did with them.

I'm curious as to when that philosophy changed. Don't suppose you have a link to an Official CCP statement on that? I wouldn't be surprised if it was a CCP Dev who actually voiced their own opinion and wasn't actually speaking for the company. Now if it is true then it's definitely a recent change which might explain the past few game releases.

One thing is for sure, if CCP thinks players in high sec or low sec are going to put all their assets into a destructible structure then CCP has definitely lost touch with the game.

By the way, those little depots are not the same thing as a small POS.



DMC
The Visitor
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha
TOGETHER WE STAND
#9 - 2016-05-05 11:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: The Visitor
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Citadels are only the first of several structures and they are specifically designed as a stable and defendable home for stuff.



So far they are anything but.
See here how vulnerable those structures really are.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=480120&find=unread

Bottom line, a bunch of containers and ships inside a pos field are easier to protect and safer in case the pos is reinforced compared to a citadel.
Aaron Raus
Diving club
#10 - 2016-05-05 12:04:29 UTC
Support Small and personal citadel suggestion if you want that dream comes true.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2016-05-05 13:25:06 UTC
An Orca is the ship you are looking for - it just takes 2...

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#12 - 2016-05-05 13:48:41 UTC
Have to agree with OP...Love the whole idea about Citadels however I just dont see them as a replacement. Eve without a POS is just not Eve.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#13 - 2016-05-05 15:40:41 UTC
I agree with the OP. CCP said that the new structures were going to be a replacement for the functionality of POSes. But, they miss on replacing the nomadic lifestyle functionality.

A new structure that really would replace the POS would have to be something you can dock at, refine at, build at do research at, and store stuff. It needs to take just a few hours to put up and take down, and for balance it should be vulnerable during that time. An Orca is not that, a mobile depot is not that, and a medium citadel is to large and clunky (read, slow to put up and take down).

One function I was hoping would come with citadels is the "mobile market". Think of a large citadel, one that supports a market, that you take with you and go from incursion site to incursion site. This is not really viable with the current Citadel due to the one week decommissioning time.

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Ashterothi
Kybernauts
#14 - 2016-05-05 16:08:32 UTC
This is exactly what the Mobile Depo was created for. The Mobile depo is the "small" citadel.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#15 - 2016-05-05 16:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I support this idea, as for the mobile Depot it is a bit of a joke, I used 3,900m3 cans whichh I seeded around the system and the ships had to run around with a mobile depot in it, no point putting them up for any length of time, all you were doing is giving the location of your safe spots away, so I would driop, refit then take them down again. The annoyance of not being to put a packaged one in a can still grates with me, stupid stupid stupid...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

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sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#16 - 2016-05-05 16:56:04 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I agree with the OP. CCP said that the new structures were going to be a replacement for the functionality of POSes. But, they miss on replacing the nomadic lifestyle functionality.

A new structure that really would replace the POS would have to be something you can dock at, refine at, build at do research at, and store stuff. It needs to take just a few hours to put up and take down, and for balance it should be vulnerable during that time. An Orca is not that, a mobile depot is not that, and a medium citadel is to large and clunky (read, slow to put up and take down).

One function I was hoping would come with citadels is the "mobile market". Think of a large citadel, one that supports a market, that you take with you and go from incursion site to incursion site. This is not really viable with the current Citadel due to the one week decommissioning time.


The new system of deployables are exactly what you are requiring for a new version of the pos. The only difference is that they are broken down into categories, one for safety and refining, one for industry and one for moon mining. The one for safety isnt that great for very small corps or solo players as it requires a fleet to aid in its defense. The industry and moon mining ones are still yet to come but hopefully they'll be worth it.

I personally couldnt understand their thinking behind doing that other than trying to bring a fresh more up to date look to some aspects of the game. Looking at the following dev blog I can only assume that they want people using citadels instead of pos's for defense to remove some aspects of safety that players have had for all these years.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#17 - 2016-05-05 17:19:36 UTC
Unfortunately, Your style of game play (and mine) is dying.

Once POS are phased out, It will begin sooner than most people think, any Nomadic, Solo and small group play styles will be pushed further down the priority ladder.

From what I can tell by the end of summer processing ore and gas at a POS will either stop or become unprofitable - in the Autumn the same will apply to production. Then you are forced into a different play style.

Solo players and Small group don't have the manpower to utilize the game mechanics of Citadels and hoping that something will be create replace the existing functionality of towers is wishful thinking

It has already been stated by CCP that the medium Citadel is intended to be a replacement for the solo players tower-pos the trouble is as a replacement it sucks!
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#18 - 2016-05-05 17:31:33 UTC
I think there's a lot of negative guessing going on here.

CCP won't be able to off-line the NPC stations (their cited reason for doing all this stuff) until they have effective structures that can fulfill all the player style requirements. I've read commentary to that effect from them as well (but admittedly it's older, although I do think they touched on it in the last CSM summit docs). So I can't say they aren't aware of the issues.

Personally, I think you'll find something akin to either a largish ship that you can attach containers to and maybe even cloak (with a 5 minute recycle timer) to play this role, or a variation of the POS towers which I feel might even survive whatever happens. I'm sure 'customs' stuff is probably doomed to become something else but it is used so I expect it will be changed somehow.

All in all, I think Citadels are just first on the list, you'll see smaller stuff to support smaller corps. They actually are far more numerous than you might think.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#19 - 2016-05-05 18:24:10 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
I think there's a lot of negative guessing going on here.

CCP won't be able to off-line the NPC stations (their cited reason for doing all this stuff) until they have effective structures that can fulfill all the player style requirements. I've read commentary to that effect from them as well (but admittedly it's older, although I do think they touched on it in the last CSM summit docs). So I can't say they aren't aware of the issues.

Personally, I think you'll find something akin to either a largish ship that you can attach containers to and maybe even cloak (with a 5 minute recycle timer) to play this role, or a variation of the POS towers which I feel might even survive whatever happens. I'm sure 'customs' stuff is probably doomed to become something else but it is used so I expect it will be changed somehow.

All in all, I think Citadels are just first on the list, you'll see smaller stuff to support smaller corps. They actually are far more numerous than you might think.



Hate to burst your bubble.... but the Medium Citadel is the "smaller stuff" to support smaller corps - they mention it once or twice in each getting back to structure Dev blog and the CSM notes links gives a bullet pointed list of what they replace

Though I don't know what happened to their idea (as seen in the csm notes) that Medium Citadels should be deployed in "15 minutes and offer resistance against most kind of assaults including capital ships" - My negative guess is not enough of an ISK sink
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#20 - 2016-05-05 18:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tzar Sinak
I lived solo for about 6 months is a C2 with a low sec static. My POS(Citdel) was an Orca. With two accounts I had 5 PI farmers, 1 gas sniffer/miner and 1 site runner. 1 character was always in the Orca.

This setup allowed me to live out of the ship maintenance bay.

It took me some time to figure out the logistics and the skills each character needed. It was not a big skill investment per say but it did take time to pull it all together. After six months I had had enough and pulled everything back together into hisec.

Now when I want to get away I resort to the ghetto base: setting up a deep safe, anchoring secure containers, loading several with supplies and living out of a mobile depot. This is my "camping" with a tent. It can be done in any security level space.

However, like the OP, I would really like a more comfortable "home away from home". Frankly, after making exploration an entry level profession, I think CCP needs to throw us bitter exploration vets a bone.

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