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No Ability to Trade between Characters in Citadels?

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Rollo Brinalle
Imaginary Rats.
#1 - 2016-05-03 02:32:14 UTC
I have to say this is a key feature that is missing. I though it would be available if there is a market hub but not seeing that. Am I missing something or is this not a thing and if it is NOT a thing it really SHOULD BE a thing.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-05-03 02:59:04 UTC
Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example.
Rollo Brinalle
Imaginary Rats.
#3 - 2016-05-03 03:04:54 UTC
Cool it's a thing and it works and you don't even need to have a market set up to do it, which is nice.
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-05-03 03:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
That seems like a pretty major oversight.

Eli Stan wrote:
Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example.

That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-05-03 03:38:02 UTC
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
That seems like a pretty major oversight.

Eli Stan wrote:
Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example.

That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right?

CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams.

If you don't want to use delivery, then contract the items which is coming to Citadels shortly.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Rollo Brinalle
Imaginary Rats.
#6 - 2016-05-03 06:23:29 UTC
I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#7 - 2016-05-03 07:56:32 UTC
Rollo Brinalle wrote:
I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.





the entire citadel structure has been rolled out without any thought process into alliance management. which is the biggest flaw of all time.. but hey.. let the stupids be stupid

incredible rushed product.. guess they had to beat competition coming their way
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#8 - 2016-05-03 08:12:06 UTC
Rollo Brinalle wrote:
I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.


When the ability to contract in a Citadel is added, then it will be possible to setup contracts just like now.

So with a market module added and contracts, it should be possible to supply an Alliance out of a Citadel. If it's just handing out ships at the start of a roam (or getting back again at the end), then the delivery method will work.
Gil Warden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-05-03 08:12:58 UTC
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
That seems like a pretty major oversight.

Eli Stan wrote:
Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example.

That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right?


CCP essentially did this in Dust, and as it turned out, making a trade system that essentially favours the least honest participant exclusively turned out really well for the scammers.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#10 - 2016-05-03 10:11:15 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
guess they had to beat competition coming their way


And what competition would that be, the only thing even remotely close would be star citizen but thats not going to be ready for about a decade :P
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#11 - 2016-05-03 10:21:45 UTC
To be honest, at this point I'm on the verge of trusting random people who are leaving the game with a hangar clearance in Jita and Amarr local more than I trust that Star Citizen will see the light of day before the 2030s.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
Rollo Brinalle
Imaginary Rats.
#12 - 2016-05-03 14:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rollo Brinalle
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Rollo Brinalle wrote:
I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.


When the ability to contract in a Citadel is added, then it will be possible to setup contracts just like now.

So with a market module added and contracts, it should be possible to supply an Alliance out of a Citadel. If it's just handing out ships at the start of a roam (or getting back again at the end), then the delivery method will work.


You can't "Deliver" fitted ships only empty hulls. So bring out the contracts but I'm thinking more for here is a bunch of fitted ship in the event of X get one if you need it. Let's make the game easier to get into fights not more time intensive.

It seems that a lot of these issues could be solved by tying the structure to the Alliance level. There could be current code limitations to do that; however, if life is to be made easier with Citadels and prosperous then the structure needs to be scaled up.
Charley Varrick
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-05-03 16:28:33 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams.




I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.

I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#14 - 2016-05-03 16:31:33 UTC
Charley Varrick wrote:
I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.

I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system.


That's a very WOW, SWTOR, etc. MMO standard trade model. EVE isn't a standard MMO.

You contract trades that way each side has some control over the terms and verification process.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Charley Varrick
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-05-03 16:41:47 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Charley Varrick wrote:
I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.

I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system.


That's a very WOW, SWTOR, etc. MMO standard trade model. EVE isn't a standard MMO.

You contract trades that way each side has some control over the terms and verification process.


Guess my conclusion is correct then. They don't want to. Which is fine...I was just pointing out that it could be done if they wanted to.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2016-05-03 18:13:25 UTC
Charley Varrick wrote:
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Charley Varrick wrote:
I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.

I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system.


That's a very WOW, SWTOR, etc. MMO standard trade model. EVE isn't a standard MMO.

You contract trades that way each side has some control over the terms and verification process.


Guess my conclusion is correct then. They don't want to. Which is fine...I was just pointing out that it could be done if they wanted to.

Those are also later code models.
Its quite plausible the trade window is yet another original code system that needs to be replaced.
Hence why we are now getting Contracts 2.0 soon.
Oh and boosters in all sec as well.
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-05-03 20:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
That seems like a pretty major oversight.

Eli Stan wrote:
Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example.

That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right?

CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams.

If you don't want to use delivery, then contract the items which is coming to Citadels shortly.

Source? There's nothing a scammer can do with contracts they can't do with a trade window. Either way they're relying on the victim not paying attention to the numbers. The only difference is that with a trade window the scammer might have his angry victim waiting for him when he undocks since they're both in the same place. You're not scared of risk are you?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#18 - 2016-05-03 21:05:08 UTC
Charley Varrick wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams.




I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.

I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system.

The trade window actually works ok.

Once you put something in, you can't remove it again and any change made in the window on one side does cancel the 'accept' of the other side in my experience. Adding ISK also cancels the accept of the other person.

It's that last bit that allows scammers to use it and yeah, it would be great if changes in the ISK offered cancelled all accepts.

I think scammers get away with it because they put the ISK value in and accept first, so the other person sees a green tick with the right amount. They then put their items (eg. PLEX, BPCs) in the trade window and accept, but that cancels the accept of the scammer because the contents of the trade window changes. So the scammer gets to adjust the ISK offered and then accept again.

For most things it works fine, but as always people should know what they are doing.

Personally I like the fact that the game provides quirks that can be used by scammers. I don't play the game to just float in a safety bubble. I like that I have to know mechanics and be at least on par with the knowledge of others or they might take advantage. That's part of the challenge of the game for me and one of the core reasons Eve is so good in my opinion.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#19 - 2016-05-04 14:54:38 UTC
Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.

For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#20 - 2016-05-04 15:03:02 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.

For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut.

Does this mean that you are introducing taxes to contracts?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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