EVE General Discussion

I find your motivations hard to comprehend. You have no problem spending your game time coming to the aid of completely unarmed freighters, whose armament is non-existent and which can be exploded in 20 seconds, but somehow aiding an armed battlestation which (will) have a cost less than a freighter, and takes a minimum of 90 minutes to explode, is not worth it? It can't be the success rate as you often fail at saving a freighter (but granted, you succeed from time-to-time). Why would defending a Citadel be any less logical than defending a freighter?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I just don't quite get it. Content is content. If you are fighting bad guys for fun, Citadels should be a great place to do that the structure itself auto-points the attackers so you can get the drop on them and their support capabilities are significant. Ultimately, who cares if you can't save every citadel, just like you can't save every freighter, as long as you are having fun.

Larges should generate bigger fights, but I also bet those who put them up are more able to defend them, especially if they are offering market services. Those would be fun to fight over too, but you might make more of a difference helping small corps defend their mediums.

That's exactly what it is. Fighting that and an actual competent defense fleet at the same time would be horrendous without having a huge numerical advantage. It's like having the mutant spawn of a Scorpion, Armageddon, Lachesis and torpedo spewing typhoon fleet issue on your nuts the entire time, except it's also invincible.

It gives the defender a tactical advantage that is huge in a small scale fight, but the advantage diminishes as the scale of the fight increases and the attacking fleet gains more power and redundancy. When you reach the point where you can tank the DPS of the citadel and have enough redundant logistics (no less than 3) that the jams are not affecting your ability to tank the advantage of the citadel is almost entirely negated and you need to bring a fleet.

It would absolutely be able to provide adequate defense against disorganized bads that people erroneously believe that all highsec PVP groups consist of, but the reality is that those kinds of groups no longer represent the majority of highsec PVPers, since the highsec PVP meta has over time shifted in favor of larger groups with more organization and collective resources due to significantly increased barriers to entry and costs. So expect lots of blown up citadels until they become a common occurrence.

They're pretty much only useful for refining as far as I'm aware, that and getting people to declare war on you.

I am always right about war decs.

SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT

If the owner of the citadel wants to pay us not to kill the citadel they can. We can even turn them into clients and they or whoever can start to pay us to protect their structures.

Tbh tonight is more than likely not going to happen. With all the hype and publicity there is more than likely a blob of war targets wanting to get involved. In that case we will look to fight but were not going to lose a load of ships to a blob when we can come back next week or the week after when everyone gets bored and allows us to get on with our business :)

Tbh we just wanted to see how this all works and start to refine doctrines to go on the offensive. The defender has so much time now to deal with our threat that this could be a problem.

VMG is officially in the business of taking down and defending your citadels. Hire us!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGILP9w6F7k

I saw you explode it was the funny.

They're useless for refining due to the price of them, to make them viable to use rather than a pos you need to rig them. The Ice refining rig atm is 70mil, but in a medium you need 4 rigs....2 for the different ores, 2 for the different Ices.

Now besides only having 3 rig slots, you'll also not be able to fit defensive rigs if you want it just for refining, then you need the modules, then add on 120 fuel blocks minimum per module per day.

The refining module is 64m atm.

Someone better be doing a **** ton of mining and refining to ever think about getting any profit out of it.

This is in hs btw.

OH, the Cloning centre is 1.3bn atm if anyone was thinking to make a profit that way. Thats 720 fuel blocks to online it and 10 per hour on top.

The corp who put up the structure can also undock and fight. It is Eve after all.

The failure of CCP to provide either content driving objects and resources in highsec or mechanics that enable content creation is pretty legendary at this point.

There's two distinct factors there, things that create conflict and mechanics that enable it. CCP is worse at the later, the general desire to blow things up compensates for the former to some extent.

The problem is there's the more than one group of people who perceive anything pertaining to PVP in highsec as being inherently bad for various ridiculously ill-conceived reasons. So when someone says something like "CCP should remove faction police because that would actually enable a massive amount of anti-ganking/criminal hunting player-enforcement gameplay like people keep saying they want" all the people who don't actually care about highsec PVP gameplay and just want characters who have low security status for whatever reason to have as many penalties stacked on them as possible all whine relentlessly about it. And that's before you even get to the people who think all highsec gameplay should just be straight up bad (I've literally seen people straight up state that it's good for highsec to have bugged, unintuitive gameplay), because they're elitists about the kind of space they live in and think everybody should be there.

Heaven forfend that all types of space might have good gameplay opportunities.

Even if there were more things of value to shoot you'd still be limited by the fact that the only way to do anything whatsoever to structures is war declarations, which are a rich man (and his friends) game. A better highsec PVP environment would require more mechanics facilitating PVP and those ideas won't gain traction because they always face huge amounts of opposition from people who don't have or want to have any involvement in highsec PVP, but think it shouldn't exist.

First and second paragraph I agree with.

The problem is that anyone who criticises bad mechanics gets labelled straight off as a whining carebear, for example the risk free bumping issue, which is a poor mechanic and bad for game balance because there a bumper can hold someone in place without any real consequences. People saying this was wrong got unfairly labelled as such. I have pushed for docking penalties because I want CODE and other gankers to have to have a Citadel in space or a POS, you see where I am going with this, its to create meaningful content, not because I want to punish them and yet I have been accused of stacking penalties because I don't like their game play. That was not a whine but many people will accuse me of whining.

Earlier on the AG channel I bemoaned the fact that the collateral system had no mechanic to control that amount of collateral against the value of the items moved, to me it just seems stupid that people have to take this on blind trust, because its not realistic, yes its a game but its more fun if its realistic at least to me. As a result some guys made 200bn with no risk at all. A number of people in the AG channel said it would not be Eve and they are right, it just annoys me that its such high return low risk.

I have seen people getting upset because the old mechanics which often resulted in a confused carebear being shootable for no explainable reason were replaced by crimewatch 2.0. I saw a lot of people completely bemused how they ended up being shot or got CONCORDED. And people bemoaned that change, are they serious...

I want you war dec corps and alliances to have meaningful targets and battles and loot, which is why one has to have something in space that needs to be defended, the Citadels could change all that, and a Large or XL will certainly create some fairly interesting combat as long as the people who put it up get the support of enough people against the war decs that are sure to come.

But I really do not think this hub and pipe camping is really fun at all for both sides, I do believe that war dec's will have more meaning with these new structures but only if they are useful, can be defended or cheap enough that it does not matter.

It is all a question of game balance and what I found refreshing about the AG channel is that the majority of people in there want PvP and ganking in hisec, but they want it to be balanced and that is not whining or moaning.

The key thing to make war decs meaningful is to have something worth defending, the rest is utter rubbish...