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Medium Citadel Price?

Author
Xanos Blackpaw
Azure Consortium
#21 - 2016-04-15 13:40:26 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
Don't feel like making my own thread so I'll just hijack yours. :p

Anyway, it is related. Anyone know the efficiency of refining modules and such on Citadels yet?


As far as I understand they have not started working on the industrial new structures yet. So there is no info on that for a while to come.


Damn. Okay.

Thinking of getting one for refining and construction.
Timcanpy Yvormes
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-04-15 17:50:18 UTC
My question is what will take to kill a med citadel?

Because now a large POS in HS is abit hard to kill.
And will i be able to store my orca in there? Because when i'm not boosting i store my in the POS so my friend can take it out and use it
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-04-16 09:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
Timcanpy Yvormes wrote:
My question is what will take to kill a med citadel?

Because now a large POS in HS is abit hard to kill.
And will i be able to store my orca in there? Because when i'm not boosting i store my in the POS so my friend can take it out and use it



You do realise account sharing is a bannable offence?

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203269561-Account-Sharing

Or do you mean you leave it in a hangar for anyone to take, it's not something I have ever done so it's not clear.

If the bottom question is possible then I apologise for the account sharing.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#24 - 2016-04-16 10:30:18 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Or do you mean you leave it in a hangar for anyone to take, it's not something I have ever done so it's not clear.

If the bottom question is possible then I apologise for the account sharing.


Likely this. Dangerous but possible.
Timcanpy Yvormes
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2016-04-16 11:16:20 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Timcanpy Yvormes wrote:
My question is what will take to kill a med citadel?

Because now a large POS in HS is abit hard to kill.
And will i be able to store my orca in there? Because when i'm not boosting i store my in the POS so my friend can take it out and use it



You do realise account sharing is a bannable offence?

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203269561-Account-Sharing

Or do you mean you leave it in a hangar for anyone to take, it's not something I have ever done so it's not clear.

If the bottom question is possible then I apologise for the account sharing.



We have 2 boosting toonin corp, so we share the same orca, i boost in Eu TZ he boost in AU TZ. but we use the same orca. I dont see a point to have 2 orcas.

Also i share my orca, i dont want to share my isk and get stolen. I trust him 750m not my whole assests. And i didn't know about that account sharing. Thanks for the info
Ted LeBon
Unity of Suns
Warped Intentions
#26 - 2016-04-19 11:56:04 UTC
Would someone with a better grasp of citadels be able to clarify something for me?

Reading through the blog, I came across this chart:- clicky

Comparing the medium and large citadels, the large citadels require a factory module and reprocessing module during construction. Does this mean the the large citadels will come with these abilities as "standard" or would you still have to fit the service modules on top of that?
Aurra Jol
Upwell Research and Manufacturing
#27 - 2016-04-21 02:44:22 UTC
Ted LeBon wrote:
Would someone with a better grasp of citadels be able to clarify something for me?

Reading through the blog, I came across this chart:- clicky

Comparing the medium and large citadels, the large citadels require a factory module and reprocessing module during construction. Does this mean the the large citadels will come with these abilities as "standard" or would you still have to fit the service modules on top of that?


Those are just the components necessary to build the "hull". You will still need to fit the applicable service module to your citadel once anchored.

Factory services will not be seeded in this first wave.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#28 - 2016-04-21 20:19:45 UTC
Price premium for the early citadels is not that much of an issue I think. But lots of people will be happy to get on the first citadel killmail.

If you are planning for medium citadel for small corp/more private uses, let the big boys plant down their Citadels around the hot spots in the region first. You certainly don't want yours to be the first/only citadel in the region in a juicy spot unless you are actively looking for fights.

Same things happened with POCOs. Some high sec corps rushed to get the first POCOs in nice spots and they got burnt pretty bad. Citadels are more similar to POCOs than POS in a way that you cannot tear down the structure before the war dec goes live. If you have them in space, you are either committed to fighting to defend or take the loss. High sec people already put too many things up in space that they are not prepared to defend.


lm Stuck
Caucasian Culture Club
#29 - 2016-04-24 22:13:07 UTC
According to me spreadsheet, just the P4 PI needed to make a M citadel would be 926M. But that doesn't include making them into components. My sheet calculates the total based on component sell and buy prices, but unfortunately structure components is such a new market the prices are no where near realistic or usable.

For example, the price to build a M citadel based on component buy price is 887M. Which is just wrong because it is less than P4 cost. And to build based on buy price you are looking at 2.1B. And that is because what few components there are on the market are marked up quite a bit currently.

Cheers
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#30 - 2016-04-26 02:33:33 UTC
lm Stuck wrote:
According to me spreadsheet, just the P4 PI needed to make a M citadel would be 926M. But that doesn't include making them into components. My sheet calculates the total based on component sell and buy prices, but unfortunately structure components is such a new market the prices are no where near realistic or usable.

For example, the price to build a M citadel based on component buy price is 887M. Which is just wrong because it is less than P4 cost. And to build based on buy price you are looking at 2.1B. And that is because what few components there are on the market are marked up quite a bit currently.

Cheers

Final cost is going to highly depend on cost of blueprint copies as well. Not that many people have 7bil to throw down on a entry level citadel BPO.
Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-04-28 05:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Morn Hylund
Jessie McPewpew wrote:

Final cost is going to highly depend on cost of blueprint copies as well. Not that many people have 7bil to throw down on a entry level citadel BPO.


I was thinking the same thing. The Medium Citadel BPO is 6bil. Then you'll have to wait until the buyer makes blueprint copies or goes further and builds citadels - and transports them to market hubs for sale.

The build cost for a M Citadel (assuming no ME research to get out units quickly) looks pretty steep, since the build requires quite a number of advanced planetary components (breaking down the parts) of which prices have risen markedly and will probably rise even more.

Looking JUST as the Structure Parts to build the Astrahus, the Structure Market Network alone is going at 318m at Jita, and you need 4x of them i.e. 1.272b. Adding in all the other Parts at Jita prices (assuming you don't build the Parts yourself) - you get ~965m ... or a total build cost of ~ 2.237bil just for the M Citadel !! And that's just "at cost". For sale expect a good mark up by the seller for the preliminary market.

Maybe my numbers are wrong? So the CCP estimated 700m figure seems way way off at current prices. Note: even researching the BPO would only reduce the Structure Market Network reqs from 4x to maybe 2x - which would shave off 600m. But researching the ME would cost probably quite a bit (I'm too lazy too look it up right now).

Note also: the price differences between T1 to T2 structure rigs is enormous. For 2% more efficiency you almost have to spend a ~1/2 bil more for a M T2 Rig.

So ... I'll be surprised if you'll be seeing many builds on the market any time soon. Maybe some BPCs available. I haven't even looked at the L or XL. Heh.
minumin
Corellian Trading Corporation
#32 - 2016-04-28 06:09:35 UTC
i dont think you need any me research on the astrahaus bpo
number of components is too small (per runs) to benefit from a reduction even at me10
well maybe if you build 10 of them in a single batch
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#33 - 2016-04-28 17:59:42 UTC
Morn Hylund wrote:
Jessie McPewpew wrote:

Final cost is going to highly depend on cost of blueprint copies as well. Not that many people have 7bil to throw down on a entry level citadel BPO.


I was thinking the same thing. The Medium Citadel BPO is 6bil. Then you'll have to wait until the buyer makes blueprint copies or goes further and builds citadels - and transports them to market hubs for sale.

The build cost for a M Citadel (assuming no ME research to get out units quickly) looks pretty steep, since the build requires quite a number of advanced planetary components (breaking down the parts) of which prices have risen markedly and will probably rise even more.

Looking JUST as the Structure Parts to build the Astrahus, the Structure Market Network alone is going at 318m at Jita, and you need 4x of them i.e. 1.272b. Adding in all the other Parts at Jita prices (assuming you don't build the Parts yourself) - you get ~965m ... or a total build cost of ~ 2.237bil just for the M Citadel !! And that's just "at cost". For sale expect a good mark up by the seller for the preliminary market.

Maybe my numbers are wrong? So the CCP estimated 700m figure seems way way off at current prices. Note: even researching the BPO would only reduce the Structure Market Network reqs from 4x to maybe 2x - which would shave off 600m. But researching the ME would cost probably quite a bit (I'm too lazy too look it up right now).

Note also: the price differences between T1 to T2 structure rigs is enormous. For 2% more efficiency you almost have to spend a ~1/2 bil more for a M T2 Rig.

So ... I'll be surprised if you'll be seeing many builds on the market any time soon. Maybe some BPCs available. I haven't even looked at the L or XL. Heh.

CCP was actually right, if you take into account the then current prices of those materials on the day the BOMs of all three citadels were announced. Personally, I have been able to acquire an asthraus worth of materials for around 550mil but I had to do the heavy lifting of converting P2 stuff to P4.

The current sell prices of those structure parts is almost 200% of build cost.
Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-04-28 18:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Morn Hylund
Jessie McPewpew wrote:

CCP was actually right, if you take into account the then current prices of those materials on the day the BOMs of all three citadels were announced. Personally, I have been able to acquire an asthraus worth of materials for around 550mil but I had to do the heavy lifting of converting P2 stuff to P4.

The current sell prices of those structure parts is almost 200% of build cost.


Ok. But you built all your own parts using your own planetary resources right? 700m still seems low to me. Where's the profit for the seller?

And the prices have skyrocketed since BOM - so 700m won't be realistic for some time. Right now it looks like you'll have to plop down a few billion just for a M citadel.

I suppose prices will come down over time ... but how quickly ??
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#35 - 2016-04-28 20:34:24 UTC
Morn Hylund wrote:
Jessie McPewpew wrote:

CCP was actually right, if you take into account the then current prices of those materials on the day the BOMs of all three citadels were announced. Personally, I have been able to acquire an asthraus worth of materials for around 550mil but I had to do the heavy lifting of converting P2 stuff to P4.

The current sell prices of those structure parts is almost 200% of build cost.


Ok. But you built all your own parts using your own planetary resources right? 700m still seems low to me. Where's the profit for the seller?

And the prices have skyrocketed since BOM - so 700m won't be realistic for some time. Right now it looks like you'll have to plop down a few billion just for a M citadel.

I suppose prices will come down over time ... but how quickly ??

Yeah, 700mil+ is still too high for a decent enough adoption rate, when few actually need it, and that is just for the hull.
Obviously, releasing full manufacturing capabilities on launch would have helped spur growth and quickly stabilized prices but it didn't happen and maybe a small citadel will soon be released? Who knows...
Tradari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-04-30 04:03:24 UTC
purchasing all the PI currently and adding the manufacturing cost its close to 1.5bil however i think this is a drive to get more people into PI and flood the market more.

I might be wrong but there are some markets that already are out of the P4 materials so the citadels in the short term look to be a rare think unless you have the time to invest in them. Team work is the key to getting them built for your corporation. Investment in the BPO's i have now done but making my money back might be another matter.

Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#37 - 2016-04-30 13:08:24 UTC
I know this personally.

6 Astrahaus Structure Kits were sold @ 60 mil ea. ( all sold within hours ).
3 Fortizar Structure Kits were sold @ 621.82 mil ea. ( sold within hours ).

When I asked the character why, she stated that they had a glut of Structure BPC's and used that to prevent a sharp market spike ( questionable as to whether that actually helped ). She also stated that she intended to continue doing this for the foreseeable future with the goal of:

" getting them out there for players to build"
" to prevent market profiteering"

I asked about BPO cost recovery. She stated that the BPO cost had already been recouped from previous sales, so everything now is just profit minus copy cost. She also stated that the low cost was to balance build cost versus the spike and PI bottleneck that was predicted months ago. When asked about hull BPC's her response was "in the oven as we speak" and that cost would be below predictions or possibly price matched.

thought I would share.

Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Mama Warbucks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-04-30 14:10:16 UTC
Max Fubarticus wrote:
I know this personally.

6 Astrahaus Structure Kits were sold @ 60 mil ea. ( all sold within hours ).
3 Fortizar Structure Kits were sold @ 621.82 mil ea. ( sold within hours ).

When I asked the character why, she stated that they had a glut of Structure BPC's and used that to prevent a sharp market spike ( questionable as to whether that actually helped ). She also stated that she intended to continue doing this for the foreseeable future with the goal of:

" getting them out there for players to build"
" to prevent market profiteering"

I asked about BPO cost recovery. She stated that the BPO cost had already been recouped from previous sales, so everything now is just profit minus copy cost. She also stated that the low cost was to balance build cost versus the spike and PI bottleneck that was predicted months ago. When asked about hull BPC's her response was "in the oven as we speak" and that cost would be below predictions or possibly price matched.

thought I would share.

Max


LOL, thx for the plug Max!

Everything you said was true, but you failed to mention some important things.

I am just the third party involved for obvious reasons. At some point I am sure my benefactors will ask me to set up an ad in the appropriate venue ( here is not the place ).
The price points were not set by me, and the initial contracts that went out were meant as a "market test". I think most of their sales were actually "word of mouth" before the market test. Either way, indications are they are content with the price points as they are for the moment. Keep in mind that those who have chose to enter into this market niche will be faced with a lot of market instability for some time to come as more "Citadel" structures/products are introduced. It would be difficult for any single entity to cover it all. (btw sorry about the cspa charge). Good luck

MW
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#39 - 2016-04-30 18:01:09 UTC
Max Fubarticus wrote:
I know this personally.

6 Astrahaus Structure Kits were sold @ 60 mil ea. ( all sold within hours ).
3 Fortizar Structure Kits were sold @ 621.82 mil ea. ( sold within hours ).

When I asked the character why, she stated that they had a glut of Structure BPC's and used that to prevent a sharp market spike ( questionable as to whether that actually helped ). She also stated that she intended to continue doing this for the foreseeable future with the goal of:

" getting them out there for players to build"
" to prevent market profiteering"

I asked about BPO cost recovery. She stated that the BPO cost had already been recouped from previous sales, so everything now is just profit minus copy cost. She also stated that the low cost was to balance build cost versus the spike and PI bottleneck that was predicted months ago. When asked about hull BPC's her response was "in the oven as we speak" and that cost would be below predictions or possibly price matched.

thought I would share.

Max

Ended up paying 450mil for an astrahus kit but whatever.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#40 - 2016-05-01 20:07:29 UTC
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
Anyone know the efficiency of refining modules and such on Citadels yet?

At a glance, basically the same as a POS refining array or outpost, depending on the security level.


[Citadel] Updates to NPC taxes and refining rig bonuses
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