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EVE: Citadel expansion - Issues

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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#381 - 2016-04-29 19:13:12 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Not jumping all over the map does help making EvE a bigger place. Not to mention ISK sinks are good. So while I'm not at all opposed to the 900k jumpclone fee, it'd have been nice if this was brought up beforehand.

Can't figure out why people with 1 bil implants complain about 1 mil fees though.


Quoted for truth.


Cause 1B of implants did not mean a regular annual operating cost of 250M as well. The choice to spend that 1B on implants has been made and cannot be undone in game. It was a 1-time capital cost with no other costs except jump clone time delay. Now regular use of JCs has incurred a per use fee (not communicated, not implied, not documented), this means ~250M ISK in annual operating costs if you jump regularly. This is a major change!

Who does it not hurt substantially?
Those heavily invested in the game, cause 250M annually is peanuts to them
Those with multiple characters per account for role specific alts (no need to JC if u have multiple single role alts for each account)

Who does it really hurt?
Those who have invested in a +5 implant JC to max SP gain that do not have lots of cash, that nearing 1B is lost (see noobs or casual players)
Those without deep pockets (see noobs/casual players)
Those with accounts with a single character (now there is a regular operating fee associated with being a jack-of-all-trades)
New players with both low income stream and low SP (now it is no longer a 1 time investment for a SP bonus JC, but a pretty large operating cost as well)

This makes JCs less of a regular use item to a specific use item for those without a ton of excess cash. It highly discourages the jack-of-all-trades character and encourages the specialization of characters. This is not a great way to attract new players to the game as their ability to swap in and out of roles just increased in cost and noobs/casuals aren't wading in cash.

I'm sure there are more downsides, but these are the biggies.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#382 - 2016-04-29 19:14:07 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Not jumping all over the map does help making EvE a bigger place. Not to mention ISK sinks are good. So while I'm not at all opposed to the 900k jumpclone fee, it'd have been nice if this was brought up beforehand.

Can't figure out why people with 1 bil implants complain about 1 mil fees though.


That were Discussing it in a few areas like /r/ and Slack, It was originally going to be 5M and it was dropped to what it is now. It's more part of the plan on keeping players in their own space to build empires Vs be all over null every x hours.
B33R
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#383 - 2016-04-29 19:18:02 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
FIXED 4/29
Buttons to the left hand side of the HUD will not show at login if the old camera is selected and no active modules are fitted to your ship
D-Scan: manually changing range value then pressing scan button does not change range.
The overview may fail to refresh correctly while in space.
When using the old camera, module buttons fail to allow deactivating modules after a jump.

Structures

Citadels service modules are missing a Used With tab
Attributes tab of the Show Info window for the Standup Arcing Vorton Projector does not display the number of targets the module hits
Access Lists are not working properly. It is possible to create Access Lists, but adding members will not work and will eventually throw a message.
There are other known issues with Structures but we are pushing out a series of fixes before the first structure will be accessible to players, so we will update this list following those fixes going out

Capitals/Fighters

Force Auxiliary carriers are using the Freighter overview icon
Saved fittings do not include fighters
Dragging a stack of fighters that is too large to the fighter hangar does not give option to split the stack
Electronic Warfare and Remote Repair Drones do not indicate that their effects fail on resistant ships/fighters
DPS numbers for fighter squads are missing from the fitting window
Double click move commands do not work for fighter squadrons
No "Approaching" message shown when navigating a ship to a point
No direct way of stopping Fighters that are in orbit
EWAR symbols from NPCs remain in Fighter buff bar after NPC is destroyed
Returning fighters often land some way away from your ship on grid
Fighter continues in same direction after activating MJD ability
The position of the Fighter Hud does not correctly adjust on window resizing
Horizontal range number is obscured by cursor when using two point targeting
Fighter HUD briefly appears during login
Dragging multiple stacks of fighters to a launch tube only loads one of the stacks
Fighter UI red line persists onto wreck after target is destroyed
In rare cases fighter abilities can get stuck while cycling (workaround: recall fighter squad)
Rapidly clicking Fighter abilities can cause abnormal UI behaviour
Missing market group name for the Society of Conscious Thought Doomsday weapons
Microwarpdrive ability continues to affect a fighter squadron for remainder of cycle after it has been Warp Scrambled
Fighters are not affected by Micro Jump Field Generator
Tech II ammunition can be loaded (but not used) without having the required skills
No shortcuts are currently in place for Launch All Fighters or Open Fighter Bay

Tactical Overlay

Fighter navigation lines and tactical overlay are not hidden with Ctrl + F9

General

It is possible to zoom closer than should be possible with Look at command using the new Camera in Tactical View
Orbital Camera resets unwillingly if you 'Look at' a target which is destroyed then 'Look at' something else immediately
Injectors: Cannot activate Skill Injectors remotely anymore
New Map: 'Jumps in the last hour´ filter shows lots of broken labels
If using the old camera, occasionally the camera can detach from ship after a jump. Workaround - Right click in space and select Look at own Ship
Standup missile guidance enhancer BPO is missing from market
Capital Shield Booster II build requirements includes a Capital Shield Booster II
Movement UI (hold Q): mouse cursor obscures distance number in UI
Movement UI (hold Q): 'Aligning' text does not disappear from screen if you align before using movement UI
Old camera: ship sometimes moves away from center if you are tracking


>>i still have my force aux skill books in my head. wasn't that going to be removed or something?
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#384 - 2016-04-29 19:24:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Zorn Cosby
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Not jumping all over the map does help making EvE a bigger place. Not to mention ISK sinks are good. So while I'm not at all opposed to the 900k jumpclone fee, it'd have been nice if this was brought up beforehand.

Can't figure out why people with 1 bil implants complain about 1 mil fees though.


That were Discussing it in a few areas like /r/ and Slack, It was originally going to be 5M and it was dropped to what it is now. It's more part of the plan on keeping players in their own space to build empires Vs be all over null every x hours.


This does absolutely nothing to stop players from moving all around, it just monetizes it. So now only the poor/noobs cannot move.

If the goal is to keep players from jumping all over the place, then utilize some other mechanic to address this vs a per use fee to utilize existing and unsaleable resources. I've got nearing 1B invested in +5 implant sets that I jump to regularly for SP gain. Now using that single JC in the same way would cost me 250M per year, across multiple accounts that is in the billions of additional operating costs to access resources that I ALREADY own but CANNOT SELL.

CCP has just screwed the regular use of JCs for newer players to gain SP. And those with low income and proportionally high resources invested in JCs have been royally screwed.

As a relatively new casual player, this change has really darkened my view of EVE and CCP. The implications of a poll tax (never a good idea) were not well considered IMHO and need to be reconsidered.

And if CCP really wants to keep JCs from being used to jump all around, then blow up the existing JC system by removing all implants from all characters and JCs so that players can make INFORMED choices regarding their investment in unsaleable implants that now for the first time have per use operating costs (uncommunicated, undocumented and never implied). Then limit JCs to a single core region or maybe 1 region away or implement delays in jumping between clones that are a long ways away, there are tons of scenarios. But don't just screw those players that have jack-of-all-trades characters vs those with hugely specialized alts.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#385 - 2016-04-29 19:43:10 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:

That were Discussing it in a few areas like /r/ and Slack, It was originally going to be 5M and it was dropped to what it is now. It's more part of the plan on keeping players in their own space to build empires Vs be all over null every x hours.


I figured as much - thanks for elaborating. When you find CCP on Slack, please direct them to forums.eveonline.com Roll
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#386 - 2016-04-29 20:04:09 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:

This does absolutely nothing to stop players from moving all around, it just monetizes it. So now only the poor/noobs cannot move.

I've got nearing 1B invested in +5 implant sets that I jump to regularly for SP gain. Now using that single JC in the same way would cost me 250M per year, across multiple accounts that is in the billions of additional operating costs to access resources that I ALREADY own but CANNOT SELL.


Not saying that you're double posting but ..... (aliens).

250 mil per year. That's 278 jumps a year, or 30 hours in between jumps. Basically, you play two-three times a week and jump in your training pod whenever you're not playing, right? Or, let me rephrase that: you like a dank pod but you don't want to risk playing in it - that about sums it up?

Sounds like you have some decision making to do, bud. You're wearing that pod like a thorny crown. If it doesn't bring you joy, please allow us to relieve you of the burden and don't buy new implants. Are you playing the game, or is the game playing you?

As a Sabre pilot, I kind of like the idea of people cruising around in their $$$ pods. Twisted
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#387 - 2016-04-29 20:59:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zorn Cosby
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
[

Not saying that you're double posting but ..... (aliens).

250 mil per year. That's 278 jumps a year, or 30 hours in between jumps. Basically, you play two-three times a week and jump in your training pod whenever you're not playing, right? Or, let me rephrase that: you like a dank pod but you don't want to risk playing in it - that about sums it up?

Sounds like you have some decision making to do, bud. You're wearing that pod like a thorny crown. If it doesn't bring you joy, please allow us to relieve you of the burden and don't buy new implants. Are you playing the game, or is the game playing you?

As a Sabre pilot, I kind of like the idea of people cruising around in their $$$ pods. Twisted


I have a full +5 JC setup to purely gain SP for all my accounts, those JCs never see the light of day, so they will never get blown up. They get jumped into whenever it makes sense to do so, choosing not to do so intentionally reduces possible SP gain. So do you intentionally choose to have lessor SP gain? It is OK, you can admit that SP is not interesting to you...

This reduces the utility of JCs to all pilots that are revenue limited. JC's were not, nor were ever planned to player's knowledge, to have any per use fees. Implants in JCs are not saleable. The current uncommunicated fees associated with JC use were never considered in the cost of obtaining or installing them. Now that CCP has implemented a poll tax on the use of JCs, it has made such JC use untenable to those with low income. But I have already spent 1B+ per account to gain a now totally unsaleable resource that CCP has changed the rules to make nearly useless for its previously communicated (over multiple years) use. I built accounts of jack-of-all-trades characters with various JCs and implants to make them useful in varying roles. Now all that has changed, 1 time capital costs are no longer really 1 time capital costs, now that CCP has implemented a fee every single time I want to use my unsaleable resources.

Even if my now less useful JC implants were saleable, I would still be pissed as CCP has additionally reduced the value of the resource as well. They are no longer just a 1 time 1B set of Improved implants, but now they are also millions in annual operating costs too. Therefore the market for the items should shrink as the costs of using them have risen.

The issue is the CCP NEVER COMMUNICATED in ANY WAY, that there would ever be a PER JUMP fee assessed. NEVER EVER. This is an ISK grab pure and simple but its impact is primarily upon those with lessor resources and particularly newer and more casual players. If having ISK sinks is a goal, this will not do it for those with real income.

Yes this is broken record, but gosh this is a player breaking issue. I'm not one for CCP ripping billions in investment from me and screwing my multiyear work on several accounts. I am highly unlikely to invest any additional resources (time or money) into something that has been devalued to such a degree by a single money grab by CCP. This is not just a small change in fees, it is a 1B loss per account + major character development time or a huge increase in annual account operating costs. I will walk away vs play in a sandbox where CCP rips me off for billions.

Does anyone think that adding JC fees will make JC use more likely? Does anyone think that increasing operating fees for JCs will have the same impact upon the rich vs those that are not? Does anyone think that reducing JC use by those that are not rolling in it will improve gameplay or attract/retain new players? Now why are there per use fees?

If I lose billions in the game, shame on me, but CCP changing the rules so that I in effect lose billions, shame on CCP.
Mandor M Sawall
Whiskey Tango Zulu
#388 - 2016-04-29 21:11:45 UTC
Strange issues with large remote capacitor transfers!!
The have limitless range, wont turn off, stops sending cap but continues to drain mine...etc...
Natalya Zaitsev
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#389 - 2016-04-29 22:11:05 UTC
Maybe these issues have been addressed, maybe they haven't...
As of today, I cannot recall fighters once they have been launched from the carrier. The fighters respond to attack commands, but will not return to the launch tubes. Additionally, my carrier displays 0 dps in the fitting screen. I do not know if this is intentional.

Thanks
- Natalya
Helium Sun
Doomheim
#390 - 2016-04-29 22:18:39 UTC
sales tax is at 2% brokers fee at 2,95%, old camera broken, dont center ship, center is on some empty space, overview doesnt update sometimes. Apple system.

Get to work, chop chop :)
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#391 - 2016-04-29 22:19:38 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:

I have a full +5 JC setup to purely gain SP for all my accounts, those JCs never see the light of day, so they will never get blown up. They get jumped into whenever it makes sense to do so, choosing not to do so intentionally reduces possible SP gain. So do you intentionally choose to have lessor SP gain? It is OK, you can admit that SP is not interesting to you...


No, I admit I like SP as much as the next guy. Sometimes I fly with regular +4s for a total value of 80 mil. When there's a good chance we'll whelp the fleet I'm in an empty clone. So while yes, more often than not I'm flying empty, I know I'm missing out on some SP. I'm a terrible slacker ;-)

Thing is ..... you choose to jumpclone every other day. CCP doesn't force you to. Maybe now is a good time to reassess whether you want a cheaper pod you actually dare undock, or cough up the ISK for some small gains. I mean ... the way I see it, permanently residing in +3's will be cheaper than going back-and-forth between +5's and no implants.
Jodie Panacan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#392 - 2016-04-29 22:22:06 UTC
I cannot recall my Fighters anymore (tried both button and right-click-menu) :(
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#393 - 2016-04-29 23:03:40 UTC
Hrrrm https://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-eve-online-citadel
"Increased the cost of installing and leaving behind a jump clone at an NPC station to 900,000 ISK"

Just Jumped from a Clone in 60M-TG to 60M-TG (Empty Clone to Training Clone) and was charged the 900K ISK, WTF I thought this was meant to be a NPC Station only change?

Also confirmed with Exec and there doesn't appear to be any settings on the Outpost control panel for the cost.
Amber Solaire
COMA Holdings
Cosmic Maniacs
#394 - 2016-04-29 23:35:54 UTC
Jason Kusion wrote:
Quote:
The overview may fail to refresh correctly while in space.


This is still not fixed.

Every time I undock on every single client the overview does not refresh at all. None of the distances refresh, none of the items that leave grid are removed, and broadcasts are not brought to the top. The only thing that seems to fix this issue is activating a gate.


I noticed this also, on an alt

Ship got scanned by a Battleship not showing on overview


Unless overview is fixed soon, it enables others to exploit the error
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#395 - 2016-04-29 23:50:51 UTC
Amber Solaire wrote:
Jason Kusion wrote:
Quote:
The overview may fail to refresh correctly while in space.


This is still not fixed.

Every time I undock on every single client the overview does not refresh at all. None of the distances refresh, none of the items that leave grid are removed, and broadcasts are not brought to the top. The only thing that seems to fix this issue is activating a gate.


I noticed this also, on an alt

Ship got scanned by a Battleship not showing on overview


Unless overview is fixed soon, it enables others to exploit the error


I have to echo this, ever since the patch I am noticing that when undocking from stations and warping off, nothing is updated and the old overview targets that I have long since warped away from are still displayed.

A quick workaround for me has been to click between overview profiles or jump to a new system.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#396 - 2016-04-29 23:58:47 UTC
My graphics card has been happily frying away every since this patch. I suspect the station environment is to blame, since it actually seems to get cooler when I undock.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Zar Myx
New Eden Browncoats
#397 - 2016-04-30 00:17:40 UTC
I have been unable to remotely modify a market order in Jita all day. There is a constant loading button in the small market order window that pops up. I am able to remote modify orders in other systems. Jita is the only system not working for me. I have not bothered to fly there and check if it works locally.
Azure Badar
Clairvoyant Corporation
#398 - 2016-04-30 01:12:38 UTC
Hmmm been trying to sell thing but "sell this item" in the menu seems not working....hope this can be fix soon....anyway Citadel is beautifully expensive......
BIack Shark
DistricT 9.
#399 - 2016-04-30 01:13:14 UTC
old camera is still broken after jump in at the gates What?
Monrena Rose
The Fae Den
#400 - 2016-04-30 01:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Monrena Rose
Game crashes on loading, since this expansion I have been unable to pay, it loads the game fine to charicter select, but when I click on a charicter, or even tyr to make a new one.. the screen goes blank with starting to load.. then crashes. Every time.. I do not know why as no error messages are given.. any help please?

never mind.. its working now, not sure why