Player Features and Ideas Discussion

In before people whining that Reaver's Tornado wrecks frigates but my Tornado can't hit the broad side of a barn



When Tornadoes came out, I was honestly frightened that it was going to turn this game into Tornadoes Online. This was after I had used a Maelstrom to blap frigs. I thought people would figure out how to do it and it would become a standard tactic.



I don't cross my fingers when I fire my 1400mm artillery. I fire at the right time, and I hit.

I'm glad you can do without the equations, but for some people knowing that they could gain an advantage studying this math makes them feel like it is important for them to study it, and that's not fun. Sometimes dumbing the game down a bit makes it more fun for experts and veterans.

I like angular velocity. How about instead of replacing it, just add the new thing as and option to put in a column just like all the current ones.

I think that's too easy. I like the idea of showing the target's evasiveness in the overview, with you being able to check your updated weapon accuracy from the info tab at your leisure. There needs to be some work for the end user, but it should be accessible to nearly all players.

Unfortunately, they didn't replace it with a hard number, they replaced it with a percentage of sorts.

Before: You compare 0.023 vs. 0.536 (rad/s) and it's a yes/no comparison, do I hit or do I not hit.
After: How do you compare 60% "evasiveness" vs. 80% "accuracy"? Hmm?

It's completely different; "evasiveness" is vs. 100% accurate guns, and "accuracy" is measured vs. a static target (0% evasiveness). So you have to mentally 0.4 * 0.8 = 32% chance of hitting a 60% target with your 80% guns? Where the **** is the "easy" in this math?

No. They need to put the ONE number in the overview and let us see it without having to do any math. Damage reduction, as a percentage from 0 to 100, due to all factors. Out of range, show 0. Tracking issues, explosion radius or sig resolution, explosion velocity or tracking, whatever the **** the reasons combine them all together and show me the number.

If they want to simplify.

Because, before, it was a simple comparison, and multiplication or addition are more complicated mental effort tasks than a simple comparison.

I'm ok with an optional column instead of removing the angular. Everybody will just add it to their "unfuck your overview" guides and **** CCP and their idiocy. We already have a million guides to work around their stupid UI choices.

I see, thanks for pointing that out

My advice, stop shooting and your ship in any fight and take a few minutes to think about this, change your overview and look at all the rows and columns why everyone will shoot you regardless of anything the overview would tell them - ezpz.

Little love for this post, as it's still required..

Please, either replace angular/radial/transversal velocity in the overview to add "Evasion Score", or allows us to have again the tracking speed somewhere (in addition to the WAS).

This actually means nothing while playing pve/pvp, it only helps comparing turrets, but it does not help knowing what we can / cannot hit.

Moreover, it's now pain in the ass to explain to new players WHY they miss, or, well, we can explain to them, but they'll never understand clearly on how to know if they can / cannot hit a target, as tracking speed isn't visible anymore.

It's unfortunately rather unlikely that they'll add this. Why? Because right now, the client does not expose the signature radius of other ships at all. The "size" column on the overview is the physical size of the object (which has no bearing on anything at all), not the sig radius (example, my Sabre has an overview "size" of 276m, but has a sig radius of 78m, and the "size" on the overview doesn't change when I light an MWD).

Now, it would certainly be nice to have such an evasive score, as it would allow direct comparison to the accuracy score. I'm just not sure they'd be willing to expose that information. Could be arguably added to the fitting window, however (40,000 * max velocity / sig radius).

As for the computation argument earlier, it's largely moot. The server already has to calculate angular velocity for every target relative to every other target on grid. Multiplying that value by a constant and a variable that doesn't change super often (relative to how often angular velocity changes, which is literally every tick, for every ship on field relative to every other one) and is specific to that ship (rather than relative to every other ship) is fairly trivial in the way of additional computational load. It's not a zero effect, but it's not a large one, compared to the existing load of angular competition already being done.



You don't understand the turret equations, apparently. Your tracking is directly multiplied by the ratio of your turret's sig resolution to the target's sig radius.

If you have a large turret (sig resolution 400m) with tracking of 0.05 radians per second, and you shoot it at a battleship target (sig 400m) moving at 0.05 radians per second (say, moving with a tangential velocity of 500 m/s at 10km), you have a 50% chance to hit it.

If you shoot the same turret at a target moving the same angular speed, but this time the target is a shield Tengu (sig 200m), you'd have only a 6.25% chance to hit, the same chance you'd have against the original battleship target if it were moving twice as fast (0.10 radians/s).

If a Legion suddenly landed on field and started moving at the same angular speed, but he had his MWD on (sig 800m), you'd have an 84% chance to hit, the same chance as against the original battleship if it were moving half as fast (0.025 radians/s).

So no, it moving fast doesn't mean you aren't going to hit it. A Moros moving at 2000 m/s is still going to get nailed on every single shot by a battleship, even if it's only a couple kilometers from that battleship and that battleship is fitting large Rails with Spike. By the same token, a frigate orbiting at 400 m/s with no prop mod at 5km is going to be flat impossible to hit (without some whiplash gimmicks) with those railguns. The size of the target has an immense effect.

That is size, not sig radius. An almost useless value actually.