Missions & Complexes

Unfortunately one of the last updates introduced an inherent instability to the Mac client, so for me it's about cap stability to ensure I don't lose another Golem due to an unexpected lockup.

Just a few additional observations for those interested:
• The heavy stasis grappler is a great piece of equipment, but I'm not convinced it has a solid place in PvE. It's excellent against Spider drones, but you're almost better off letting them orbit and pick them off one at a time with light drones. Against medium ships, a target painter will probably yield more consistent results and is more effective at ranges beyond 10km.
• I find cap batteries (I know, shudder) are mainly useful for increasing the cap on the Golem, which is a tad on the light side. Combined with a T2 capacitor control circuit, this basically gives you enough to infi-run a X-large Deadspace shield booster. Neut protection for the handful of missions where it's applicable is an added bonus.
• I'm not convinced a 4th ballistic control system is essential - especially if you're running implants. Where an extra 2-3% DPS may come into play is almost so rare as to be moot. Damage application is certainly more critical, and a missile guidance enhancer is only beneficial if you're not already running missile guidance computers.
• I still prefer a pair of MGCs over a pair of TPs simply because I can get away with two damage application modules (instead of 3-4), it frees up my rig slots and I can break launchers into groups. For the few instances where a TP on top of MGCs would help applying damage, I'm almost better off switching to Precision ammunition (especially against missions that feature large numbers of frigates).
• Since Golems are over-tanked to begin with, I think consideration for the 4th low slot should be given to a signal amplifier. Faction variants give you a 34% targeting range boost, 16% scan resolution, 52% sensor strength and an additional +2 targets (it's nice having an 11th target out of Bastion). The extra sensor strength is often (though not always) enough to negate EW effects outside of Bastion. There are more than enough missions where the extra targeting range comes in very handy, too.

Time has nothing to do with how fast you can aquire the needed skills to learn fits, how ships work, and all that jaz, I have 22mil SP, and have mastery level 3 with my Megaranis, only really missing the skills you don't really need to make the fit work that are required for Mastery, almost all my SP is in AF's (Gal) and Battleships (Cal/Gal Level 5), and T2 Weapons on nearly all BS Guns bar Lasers and Projectiles, I went from an Enyo to a Megatthron, and I am a very well know pilot in Spectre Fleet for bringing a Megathron to any fleet, even Frigate Gangs, and I keep up, do more DPS then any ship in any fleet I go on, hit better, and last longer (I will admit, the timing of Volleys on the Trans and Velo is hard as hell, but you get it after a bit) most people did what everyone told them and focused trained on Frigates or Cruisers for their first years, I focused on an Enyo, got the hull, then straight into a BS, all my SP since then has been on BS related skills, and they work, you can ask anyone that has flown with me, they all thought I was stupid when I started on my Megathron high, saying it could not be made to work with fleets, but it does, because I spend time on my fits, modifiying and tweeking them to get the most out of them, so don't worry, I am used to bitter vets telling me what I can and can't do, I am also used to spitting in their faces when what they say won't work does turn out to work, and as you say, you have no idea what I have done in EVE, or what I can do, I have lead fleets, cut ribbons through fleets to get to Capitals, all things people said I could never do, at 2mil SP i was an FC and leading fleets I made my own doctrines for and I have only whelped 2 fleets, one to a 40 man Svi gang when the new Logi came out, and 1 to a 70 man Attack BC fleet against my Vexor fleet, they had pings bloody everywhere, but we still got ISK positive in that fight and the guys had a blast.

You are assuming because I have low SP I don't know anything, you assuming because I am newer to the game I might not have learnt or mastered things you haven't, considered things you didn't, and like wise me to you, you probably didn't know I was an FC that has been FC'ing since my first month in EVE, why did I decide to do it? Cause when I joined some bitter vet dog told me I should learn Frigates cause I couldn't do anything else, and I shoot follow his orders cause he knew better then I did, 1 month later my T1 Cruiser fleet shattered his Linked Faction fleet, SP and time since creation mean sweet f all, I love this game, and since I started it I wanted to ptove that those things mean exactly that, EVE is all I have, and it is basically all I do. So as you said, you don't know who or what I am.

And in reference to you before thing, no she didn't answer, she siad things like, "Hmm.. Maybe a L or XL" that isn't answering, asnwering would be explaining why those were her choice, was it to much tank, maybe using a L would allow you to fit X, Y or Z as well, personally, I have tried Medium and L and XL, and so far L and M seem to be the winners in terms of efficiency, when in Pith varients at least, this is why I like Authur, see how he is answering, how he is explaining things, that is an answer to my question, not a little smart ass side remark (Not you), and I also say don't just post fits, so yeah,

@The Bigpuns: Yeah, it is basically meant to help New Bro's understand how a fitting procedure takes place, cause all I hear is people saying **** fit, then linking fits that the New Bro won't understand, then New Bro uses it, and looses it, cause they didn't use it right, whenever we kill a guy on a hunter fleet I aways open convo with them if I think they have a bad fit, and ask them why, half the time it's something like "My Corp mate told me it was a really good fit" or "It was on Reddit and had good remarks" some bull like that, I wanted something that explained why we choose things, I was going to do it with something T1 like a Raven, but after some of hte responses on this thread I am doubting I will be doing that, there is no fitting support for new players, there is just what people link, and those fits are often sub par, not considerate of SP, or just a different kind of play style to how the players mind works, this would at least give them some guide lines at what to look for and what to think about, to get the most from their Hulls, veterans might understand it straight away, but a New Bro doesn't, get what I mean? We all sit back and laugh at the terrible fits we see on zKill, and call them stupid, but half the time they died in that stupid fit cause no one helped them, cause no one taught them why certain modules work better then others, why Weapons system X is better then Y for that type of gameplay, and they either get pissed and leave, or keep doing it, and get laughed at, but no one ever tries to help them, that was the basis for this, and an in-game channel I am working on for the New Bro's who join my fleet to help them with fits and info and all that.

Aesthetically, I love the Rattlesnake. But like all dual-weapon based platforms, attempting to apply that DPS is another matter entirely. Regardless of missile choice and setup, you lose out to a combination of damage-specific bonuses, range, application against smaller targets or lengthy reloads. The same applies to drones, as you're faced with a choice between mobility, high damage, application and lengthy transit times and a fixed stationary position, superior range but inferior damage and application. In reality, the Rattlesnake doesn't fare any better than any of the Marauders.

It's funny that you mention the Kronos, because I think it's actually the superior choice. You can achieve an absolutely insane tank with a minimal commitment of three low slots and less than 200m ISK. Neutron Blaster Cannons with Null ammunition will crank out in excess of 1200 DPS with implants to ranges of 60km (it's not uncommon to vaporize frigates in excess of this). A flight of medium drones takes this to almost 1400 DPS. For stationary structures or NPC targets that venture to close, Void ammunition will blow well past 1800 DPS (over 2000 DPS overheated). Even a Vindicator can't touch this.

T2 Hybrid ammunition is also not only dirt cheap - but compact. This leaves an abundance of excess cargo space for salvaging.

Blasters track like they're on rails and will melt anything and everything beyond 20km. What damage you may lose out against battleships at extreme ranges is more than compensated with the ability to single volley frigates, destroyers and cruisers. You only need a pair of tracking computers which leaves two remaining mid slots for a MWD, MJD or heavy stasis grappler.

One is more or less pigeon-holed into a certain type of fit for most Marauders. Minor variations with fit aside, you're basically looking at:
• Golem: Cruise missile launchers with Fury ammunition; Shield tank
• Paladin: Mega pulse lasers with Scorch ammunition; Armor tank
• Kronos: Neutron blaster cannons with Null ammunition; Armor tank
• Vargur: 800mm repeating cannons with Faction ammunition; Shield tank

I do not agree.

Kronos with blasters does less dps at 50km than one with rails. And yes, there are lots of time when shooting at 50km is needed.
Same argument with paladin and tachs.
My vargur fit varies even more, because if I have a mission I fit arty in (scarlet) I have to bugger about with the rest of the modules to make the arty fit.
But golem is nearly always cruises.

Still prefer the rattle for now!

With the Kronos, three range-scripted tracking computers will deliver marginally more damage @50km than railguns. There are also the inherent limitations with railguns to reliably hit smaller targets at distances less than 30-35km. For the handful of missions where you do need to hit out to longer distances (Worlds Collide, Assault, Pirate Invasion and Smugglers) a MJD does the trick.

I wish I didn't hate the Rattlesnake so much. I don't know what it is, but even with V drone skills and a pair of omnidirectional tracking links sentries routinely miss or graze targets. Bouncers seem to fare the worst. If you have some suggestions or tips to improve this, I'd love to see your fit.


Out of curiosity, is the Golem your preferred platform of choice?

I have to agree with you on the aesthetics of the Navy Scorpion hull. While the Raven and Navy Scorpion have the same DPS on paper, it's less because you're burning through more volleys to kill fewer targets. Often it's enough of a differnce with battleships to require an extra volley to finish off. The lack of damage application bonuses hurts against smaller targets as well. Interestingly enough, if you just need kinetic or thermal damage the Rattlesnake will outperform both the Raven and Navy Scorpion (in addition to using a lot less ammunition). The Barghest is also kind of a beast, even though it's unweildy (the pancake clips on every object known to capsuleers...).

I prefer Marauders in general over Navy or Pirate ships because you get insane tank, ample storage and utility highs and great damage application. Even if you don't salvage, having a 48km fast tractor for mission objectves is nothing to sneeze at. The fast MJD also comes in handy. While they're a bit lacking in general speed and mobility, a good set of implants and rig choices easily addresses any shortcomings. With full or partial Ascendancy implants and Hyperspacial rigs it's not uncommon to see these things zipping around at Machariel speeds.

I personally like the Golem (especially in black, as it's the closest to a State Raven I'll ever get). What I hate is the huge delay to targets with missiles and occasionally having to count volleys at extreme ranges. Even fully rigged for damage application it has a tough time against smaller ships - particularly frigates. This is where I think gun-based platforms like the Kronos or Vargur have an edge - particularly as they're able to insta-volley many ships out to 70km. A quick swap of ammunition also hikes their short-range DPS to obscene levels without requiring a refit (over 2000 DPS on the Kronos with drones).

Speaking only from my experience, grapplers are borderline useless outside of PvP. Believe me - I was really excited with the concept and wanted them to work with PvE in the worst possible way. Even though you can activate them at ranges out to 34km they really don't start to have any effect until under 10km - and they have to be overheated. If you find yourself surrounded by a bunch of ships orbiting at between 2-5km (Spider drones are the usual suspects here) you can absolutely murder them - even with large guns. However, you have to weigh this against a tracking computer, target painter or even standard stasis web (both the Kronos and Paladin have a limited number of mid slots).

The grappler is basically a consolation prize for Kronos pilots who lost and still covet their old 90% webs. I think the grappler will have more benefit on the Golem since you can start slowing a target out past 30km - and with the way missiles work that can often make just enough of a difference.


I certainly can't argue with that logic. I'm using my Marauders to both clear and blitz, so for me the extra warp speed does pay off a lot of the time. I can't remember - were you running missile guidance computers as well or just the T2 rigors and target painters? (I seem to recall that your fit was the latter)



It can really depend. Often I find that unless I split off drones and missile against different targets I lose a lot of missile DPS (in-transit) while drones get the kill shot. I've had some success with auto-targeting rapid heavy launchers, and while they're effective against small ships that close range - you lose half your DPS while they either reload or switch to closer targets. Again, it can really depend on the mission and numerous other factors, but I've found that the Rattlesnake is really a mixed bag of snakes. The Rattlesnake really begs to be used with heavy drones, but their slow speed and the fact that they continually get themselves in over their heads with webbing frigates leaves them in a bad place.

With full Ascendancy implants, Hyperspacial rigs and a Prototype Hyperspacial Accelerator you can get it over 6AU/sec. It still aligns slower, and the signature blooms to the point where you're taking full damage from anything. Of all the Marauders the grappler will probably benefit the Golem the most - which isn't to say it will be of real benefit. There are a handful of missions (Damsel, Thief) where running torpedoes with a grappler would probably rock.

Grapplers are for killing small ships in extreme close range situations, and that's all they are for. The work great in null anomalies like forsaken hubs where everything spawns on top of you and where npc frigs the warp disrupt always orbit under 10km (and in pvp situations where frigs catch you with unbonused scrams) but that's about it.

Not really just about the Golem, just saying people are using Grapplers incorrectly then being disappointing in them lol. I love them, watching an npc frig that is orbiting at 3k from my Mach stop like it hit a brick wall then get blapped by BS guns is funny as hell to me even now.