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Marauders are now useless

First post
Author
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#41 - 2016-04-26 15:33:43 UTC
Endecroix wrote:
....Incursions - pirate battleship is best
Level 4 Missions - pirate battleship is best
Level 3 Missions - pirate battleship is best
Small gang PVP - pirate battleship is best, yep some people have used Marauders but really it's niche and because they could, you'd be well shocked if they didn't get a few nice kills at that price point. After insurance you'd be better off with a carrier.
Large scale PVP - pirate battleship fleets have doctrines, never seen a marauder one!
Wormholes - Marauders are used.

Is that the intention that Marauders are wormhole ships?....


Wait this is true??

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2016-04-26 16:41:16 UTC
am little disappointment about loss of ewar immunity
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2016-04-26 16:57:24 UTC
unidenify wrote:
am little disappointment about loss of ewar immunity



Immune anything is generally bad but I feel your pain.

Marauders need to be cheaper in price to be competitive. There still the price of a carrier.

Yaay!!!!

Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2016-04-27 22:17:17 UTC
I started this game as a battleship pilot about 3 years ago. They told me it was stupid, that T3 cruisers and plenty of other things made my chosen ship class useless (except pirate faction). I trained all battleship skills exclusively anyways.

Then I made a salvager alt (literally a perfect Noctis pilot with all V everything), thinking it would be nice to have a mission runner and then a Noctis clean up after. Then they nerfed salvaging into utter uselessness (high-sec wise, at least).

Disappointed, I kept going because I had hope that the promised day would come. I told them I was training marauders to V. They told me it was stupid,that it was worth nowhere near the crazy SP investment. I persevered.

Now, after 3 years, I finally have a pilot that can fly all 4 marauders perfectly, and an alt that can fly a Golem perfectly.

And then they are waving the nerf bat at marauders now. WHY? As a PVE player for 3 years, I can definitely tell you PVE in this game is already terribly dull, and the convenience of bastion went a long way towards keeping me playing this.

You killed salvaging. You let T1 battleships get outclassed by cruisers and command ships. And now, instead of balancing and fixing useless (at its role) battleships like the Rokh (a sniper ship outdamaged at the same range by a Naga) you nerf bastion.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#45 - 2016-04-27 22:40:36 UTC
95% resistance is at worst a slap not a bat
Brown Pathfinder
Its a good day to die
#46 - 2016-04-28 12:15:03 UTC
Bs and marauders in general need 2x m3 of the cargo space increased so you can fit more cap booster charges..
would be nice with drone bay increage but not a necessity.
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2016-04-28 16:00:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Brown Pathfinder wrote:
Bs and marauders in general need 2x m3 of the cargo space increased so you can fit more cap booster charges..
would be nice with drone bay increage but not a necessity.


Can't resolve balance issues based solely on a specific fit. Could they have larger cargo bays, yea, but they can't solely be to fit more cap chargers in them (that would actually be a reason to not increase their bays).

If they were.. 600 to 650 million, you'd see them everywhere. But that would break the curve quite a bit... If they cut the cost of battleships by 1/3 that would or could Recify the marauder cost and potentially reduce it to around 800 million.

Yaay!!!!

PAPULA
Some Assembly Required.
#48 - 2016-04-30 08:03:27 UTC
here's an example how much damage marauder can take:

https://zkillboard.com/kill/53653842/

As you can see it died pretty fast and took only 60k damage.
Blink
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-04-30 23:48:36 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
here's an example how much damage marauder can take:

https://zkillboard.com/kill/53653842/

As you can see it died pretty fast and took only 60k damage.
Blink


lets see got hit by a gang of T2, plus neuts, plus paints, plus webs.

It got hit with a gang of 12 pilots.. 10 in ships capable of doing damage.. and you expected the marauder to live?

If the guy was in a Dominix.. dead, Apocalypse.. dead, Typhoon, dead...

You overload the damn ship before it can contain or sustain that amount of damage at once, its going to die.

I don't get how this is an example of how marauders are useless. This is an example on how 1 vs 12 is a stupid move.

Yaay!!!!

PAPULA
Some Assembly Required.
#50 - 2016-05-01 10:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: PAPULA
I am just saying that he only tanked 65k damage, and he had 2 cap boosters.
I would expect him to tank at least 100k.
Straight

I am just saying alone marauder in pvp is not very good.
Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2016-05-01 14:19:01 UTC
You have never seen what a triple xl ancillary golem will do to a gate camp have you? I would say at best your example was one of someone who either got caught off guard or made a poor decision.

There are marauder fits out there that will easily put out 14k dps burst tanks. Not saying that will hold up to that dmg for more then a minute at best but it gives a bit of prospective.

The only current issue i have with marauders right now is not the 95% resists to ewar ( in case you don't understand that's basically immune) My issues are that they are now the only ship in game that's a flying weapons timer and that nerfs bats the living crap out of things like solo C5 site running and some other forms of pve.

In fact i just ran my alts golem along side 5 RR nestors in c4 yesterday. We were pulling full field all waves and multiple times my golem was tanking up to 4k dps without breaking a sweat and not even having to use my cap boosters. I would call that far from useless.
Jung-Hwa Stenier-Tian
Angry Rampant Space Gerbils
#52 - 2016-05-01 17:49:48 UTC
If Marauders are losing EWAR immunity I will be unsubscribing. It's already impossible to run L4s without them because of broken NPC EWAR. I have about 20 consecutive minutes of free time a day to play so I don't have time to sit jammed for six weeks by a single NPC frigate.

A 5% nerf doesn't sound like much on the face of it, but 5% of "permanently jammed/disrupted/dampened" is still "permanently jammed/disrupted/dampened".

It wouldn't even be necessary if CCP could be bothered to make NPC EWAR reasonable, but with the present system of "there is a single Guristas elite frigate in existence in New Eden, therefore all 20,000 players on the server are permajammed" it is an absolute requirement for 100% immunity.

Either make NPC EWAR less utterly insane or restore Bastion Module. It's a bizzare change to make that will render mission running entirely pointless. Unless that's the whole point, of course. In which case just remove missions.
Alexa Coates
Coalition Of Misfits
#53 - 2016-05-02 17:22:00 UTC
wait bastion doesn't make you immune anymore? then what's the point?

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.

Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2016-05-02 20:03:45 UTC
You are putting too much emphasis on the immunity change. It now has a 95% resistance instead of total immunity. Also your sensor strength increases by 1000. This really is the same as being immune for the most part.

Actually I need to test something on the sensor strength. There may be a very good possibility that it will make a bastioned marauder very hard to combat scan. Not sure though with the sig size.
Lyri Voidstalker
Darkfire Collective
#55 - 2016-05-06 04:28:04 UTC
Why are the marauders getting nerfs? As if the bastion mode drawbacks weren't enough?
What am I to do when im flying my Paladin then multiple Curses jump me and they all Tracking disrupt me?
So now they can neut me and disrupt my already slow tracking.. before i could at least be immune from their Ewar
and shoot them back (and survived). Now ill just have to sit there nice and tidy wait to die.
I think for the 2B+ price tag the Marauder needs more features not a nerf.

Every single ship type or role I spend a long time training into ends up getting nerfed or rendered obsolete.
Now I see why people become so bitter. Sad I can think of 10 more broken things that need addressing than a Marauder nerf for what purpose.. Thank you for making my day.
Johng Kahn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2016-05-06 14:01:26 UTC
Lol I feel your pain on the training blues. I had an alt train up tengu, ishtar, and max out sentry then the nerf bat went into full swing on all of them. (Thanks PL :P).

As to your idea of the effect on the tracking disrupts though as i keep stating it's only a 5% effect over all and stacking penalties still apply so at best they could maybe get 10% effect of thier total of maybe a 60% full effect so your looking at a real time effect of possibly 6%. ( yes i'm pulling numbers out of my ass on the fly cause #effort but this is a realistic example to show the math).

I did a test on my golem with a curse and 3 missile disrupts with both range and precision scripts in. My toon is recon 5, the overall effect did nothing for range, (golem has a 200k + missile range) and there was no decernable difference due to the explosion radius vs the volly dmg i did on the curse.

I would imagine considering the hull and bastion bonus of pally that this would be about the same thing you will find if you preform the same test. While they can apply it the effect seems negligible.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#57 - 2016-05-10 11:01:15 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
I am just saying that he only tanked 65k damage, and he had 2 cap boosters.
I would expect him to tank at least 100k.
Straight

I am just saying alone marauder in pvp is not very good.


https://zkillboard.com/kill/51219477/

260k damage

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Doddy
Excidium.
#58 - 2016-05-12 14:18:08 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
I am just saying that he only tanked 65k damage, and he had 2 cap boosters.
I would expect him to tank at least 100k.
Straight

I am just saying alone marauder in pvp is not very good.


Killmails show actual damage taken, not damage ignored through resists. Say he had 80% resists across the board, that means he tanked 325k damage, so what do you consider a good level of tanking for a solo subcap vs a fleet of 10?
Doddy
Excidium.
#59 - 2016-05-12 14:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Lyri Voidstalker wrote:
Why are the marauders getting nerfs? As if the bastion mode drawbacks weren't enough?
What am I to do when im flying my Paladin then multiple Curses jump me and they all Tracking disrupt me?
So now they can neut me and disrupt my already slow tracking.. before i could at least be immune from their Ewar
and shoot them back (and survived). Now ill just have to sit there nice and tidy wait to die.
I think for the 2B+ price tag the Marauder needs more features not a nerf.

Every single ship type or role I spend a long time training into ends up getting nerfed or rendered obsolete.
Now I see why people become so bitter. Sad I can think of 10 more broken things that need addressing than a Marauder nerf for what purpose.. Thank you for making my day.


Oh knoes, three curse reduce my tracking by 9%, whatever shall i do Roll

95% of the effect of each disruptor is lost, and the stacking penalty is still applied. So now each curse is tracking disrupting you about as much as one of those light td drones nobody uses because they are terrible. Truth is every one of those curse would be far more dangerous to your marauder if they had anything else but ewar in that mid slot
Doddy
Excidium.
#60 - 2016-05-12 14:27:22 UTC
Jung-Hwa Stenier-Tian wrote:
If Marauders are losing EWAR immunity I will be unsubscribing. It's already impossible to run L4s without them because of broken NPC EWAR. I have about 20 consecutive minutes of free time a day to play so I don't have time to sit jammed for six weeks by a single NPC frigate.

A 5% nerf doesn't sound like much on the face of it, but 5% of "permanently jammed/disrupted/dampened" is still "permanently jammed/disrupted/dampened".

It wouldn't even be necessary if CCP could be bothered to make NPC EWAR reasonable, but with the present system of "there is a single Guristas elite frigate in existence in New Eden, therefore all 20,000 players on the server are permajammed" it is an absolute requirement for 100% immunity.

Either make NPC EWAR less utterly insane or restore Bastion Module. It's a bizzare change to make that will render mission running entirely pointless. Unless that's the whole point, of course. In which case just remove missions.


No, 5% of tracking disrupted means those rats who would knock 50k off the range of a non bastion ship will knock 2.5k off the range of a bastion ship, probably less thanks to stacking. If you can't deal with 2.5k less effective range (on a ship with a built in range bonus no less) you are beyond hope. 99% of people will never notice it, because they are not terrible.