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What we grrrrgoons going to do?

First post
Author
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#581 - 2016-04-25 22:11:15 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
No, it's an undeniable fact that they gain an unfair advantage, and now in addition there's more evidence that they RMT (which you'll note is something else I've said all along).

It's truly unbelievable that you can see this much against them, from reputable sources like Nosy no less, and still try to claim that you're defense of them is completely neutral. Judging by other people's comments elsewhere you might find your side is a pretty lonely place before too long.

Why has this thread switched to talking about the multi-dollar media empire?

Oh hang on....apparently it hasn't. OK, RMT away Emporium.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#582 - 2016-04-25 22:13:05 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Why has this thread switched to talking about the multi-dollar media empire?

Oh hang on....apparently it hasn't. OK, RMT away Emporium.
Feel free to provide the evidence of TMC RMTing whenever you want to. I guarantee if you show verifiable evidence of that I'll be against them too.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#583 - 2016-04-25 22:20:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
No, it's an undeniable fact that they gain an unfair advantage, and now in addition there's more evidence that they RMT (which you'll note is something else I've said all along).

It's truly unbelievable that you can see this much against them, from reputable sources like Nosy no less, and still try to claim that you're defense of them is completely neutral. Judging by other people's comments elsewhere you might find your side is a pretty lonely place before too long.


"I gave my opinion that literally no one agrees with, so it's obviously an undeniable fact"

You should be a US politician Lucas. You'd go far.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#584 - 2016-04-25 22:26:19 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
"I gave my opinion that literally no one agrees with, so it's obviously an undeniable fact"

You should be a US politician Lucas. You'd go far.
No, it's an undeniable fact because having more isk is an advantage and without the IWI site they'd not be able to leverage the level of isk income they currently have. Just because a few vocal people with every reason to be against hat went "NOPE!" doesn't somehow disprove that. If anything most of the arguments you guys made was that it does provide an unfair advantage but other applications do too.

Oh wait, yeah I forgot you didn't actually bother reading any of the previous posts so you pretty much are starting from scratch here. My bad, never mind.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#585 - 2016-04-25 22:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Why has this thread switched to talking about the multi-dollar media empire?

Oh hang on....apparently it hasn't. OK, RMT away Emporium.
Feel free to provide the evidence of TMC RMTing whenever you want to. I guarantee if you show verifiable evidence of that I'll be against them too.

So this is just a straight double standards thing from you then?

You post evidence of IWI RMT. You seem to be against them for it with no evidence.

What individual bankers have been banned for is no different to what a number of individual goons have also been banned for. Individual actions don't equate to systemic processes, unless you apply that same standard to both organisations.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#586 - 2016-04-25 23:04:44 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
No, it's an undeniable fact because having more isk is an advantage and without the IWI site they'd not be able to leverage the level of isk income they currently have. Just because a few vocal people with every reason to be against hat went "NOPE!" doesn't somehow disprove that. If anything most of the arguments you guys made was that it does provide an unfair advantage but other applications do too.

Oh wait, yeah I forgot you didn't actually bother reading any of the previous posts so you pretty much are starting from scratch here. My bad, never mind.


"someone disagrees with me, so obviously they didn't read what I wrote"

"Just because a few vocal people...." pot, meet kettle.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#587 - 2016-04-25 23:07:40 UTC
I'm not a proficient forum warrior. Is there any way to hide replies quoting someone whose posts I've hidden? Once the lolfactor wears out it's getting old. Please advice.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#588 - 2016-04-25 23:11:31 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
So this is just a straight double standards thing from you then?

You post evidence of IWI RMT. You seem to be against them for it with no evidence.

What individual bankers have been banned for is no different to what a number of indivual goons have also been banned for. Individuals actions don't equate to systemic processes, unless you apply that same standard to both organisations.
Lol? So CCP's director of security saying that if it were up to him all 12 bankers would have been permabanned, that's not evidence enough? You literally just have you and other grr goons players stating "hurf blurf Emporium RMT". I mean hell, you haven't even given a good explanation of how they would RMT without being caught, because let's face it, you've not thought it out. This is why pretty much everything you say gets dismissed.

At the end of the day though you can keep trying to stand by your ever diminishing group of IWI cheerleaders in denying it, but you can't deny the truth forever.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#589 - 2016-04-25 23:13:06 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
"someone disagrees with me, so obviously they didn't read what I wrote"
Actually it wasn't the disagreement, it was that you were disagreeing with points I'd never made. This was also something explained to you which is again something you seem not to have read.

Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
I'm not a proficient forum warrior. Is there any way to hide replies quoting someone whose posts I've hidden? Once the lolfactor wears out it's getting old. Please advice.
You could stop reading the thread, or just read the name before you read the post.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Bleedingthrough
#590 - 2016-04-25 23:14:34 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
I'm not a proficient forum warrior. Is there any way to hide replies quoting someone whose posts I've hidden? Once the lolfactor wears out it's getting old. Please advice.


Try reddit. Trolls get downvoted there. Roll
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#591 - 2016-04-25 23:29:01 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
So this is just a straight double standards thing from you then?

You post evidence of IWI RMT. You seem to be against them for it with no evidence.

What individual bankers have been banned for is no different to what a number of indivual goons have also been banned for. Individuals actions don't equate to systemic processes, unless you apply that same standard to both organisations.
Lol? So CCP's director of security saying that if it were up to him all 12 bankers would have been permabanned, that's not evidence enough? You literally just have you and other grr goons players stating "hurf blurf Emporium RMT". I mean hell, you haven't even given a good explanation of how they would RMT without being caught, because let's face it, you've not thought it out. This is why pretty much everything you say gets dismissed.

At the end of the day though you can keep trying to stand by your ever diminishing group of IWI cheerleaders in denying it, but you can't deny the truth forever.

If they had been RMTing, they would have been banned. That's the concrete evidence that is available.

That hasn't happened. Plain, simple, verifiable, objective.

The only hurt blurf that gets dismissed here is the rubbish you post.

I'm not grrr gons. I quite like them. I also like having fun, so it's just playing the game. But overall, I admire what gons have done in the past. Not so much lately.

The only thing I dislike is the tears and whining now occurring because you've lost. You're happy when it's just gons dominating, when it's just gons doxxing, when it's just gons controlling the narrative of the metagame.

But crying and whining incessantly because you are losing is pathetic and worth making lots of fun of, especially as you're incapable of not responding.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#592 - 2016-04-25 23:57:07 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
If they had been RMTing, they would have been banned. That's the concrete evidence that is available.
Except of course the director of security claiming that if he had it his way they would have been banned permanently and confirming they were involved in serious RMT.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
I'm not grrr gons. I quite like them.
lol, good one. Complete BS, but good one.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
The only thing I dislike is the tears and whining now occurring because you've lost.
Except that's not why, you can go back to long before this war even started to see I held the same opinions.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#593 - 2016-04-26 00:27:58 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
stuff


Sorry if I hit a nerve. Just admit everyone has shown how absurd you are already.

Come on, this is just sad.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#594 - 2016-04-26 00:42:25 UTC
Let's not start this thing where you just say "stuff" then a completely random troll post again. Just hush up until you think up a valid point.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Josef Djugashvilis
#595 - 2016-04-26 05:43:55 UTC
Lucas, if you have any evidence regarding wrong doing by IWI then present it to CCP.

They will consider it and reach a decision which we all need to accept.

Right now you just come across a sad, whinging loser on the wrong side of World War Bee.

Perhaps you are persisting with this hopeless cause to say on the right side of the increasingly paranoid mittens?

This is not a signature.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#596 - 2016-04-26 07:53:46 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Lucas, if you have any evidence regarding wrong doing by IWI then present it to CCP.

They will consider it and reach a decision which we all need to accept.

Right now you just come across a sad, whinging loser on the wrong side of World War Bee.

Perhaps you are persisting with this hopeless cause to say on the right side of the increasingly paranoid mittens?
Read the link I've posted to Nosys blog. According to CCPs head of security, even when they do have evidence they don't act on it.

And again these have been my opinions for a logn time, it has nothing to do with the Imperium. I know you guys find it impossible to separate personal opinion for the tag under someone's name, but most normal people don't.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Reiisha
#597 - 2016-04-26 11:41:05 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Isaac Armer wrote:
"I gave my opinion that literally no one agrees with, so it's obviously an undeniable fact"

You should be a US politician Lucas. You'd go far.
No, it's an undeniable fact because having more isk is an advantage and without the IWI site they'd not be able to leverage the level of isk income they currently have. Just because a few vocal people with every reason to be against hat went "NOPE!" doesn't somehow disprove that. If anything most of the arguments you guys made was that it does provide an unfair advantage but other applications do too.

Oh wait, yeah I forgot you didn't actually bother reading any of the previous posts so you pretty much are starting from scratch here. My bad, never mind.


I haven't read the entire thread to be honest, but i'm wondering what point you're trying to make. IWI's isk is funding 2 alliances, not all the 20+ in the MBC. The CFC has roughly the same amount of ISK as the entire MBC combined, but the people who control it don't feel like spending it. IWI was a catalyst to get events rolling, nothing more - If you think that IWI is the only thing that keeps the conflict going, i guess (ex) CFC line members have been brainwashed more than i thought.

Any discussion about IWI has no relevance whatsoever on 'providing an advantage', as they provide very little of it if at all. ISK alone doesn't set up logistics chains, manufacturing locations, FC's, fleet members or even competence. If you believe that just having ISK provides any advantage whatsoever, look at CFC: All that isk, and they still have less space than a newbie alliance.

Which i think is rather ironic and amusing.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#598 - 2016-04-26 13:29:19 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Let's not start this thing where you just say "stuff" then a completely random troll post again. Just hush up until you think up a valid point.


You've repeatedly point-blank ignored the 3rd party apps that every major alliance uses to gain isk while condemning IWI. Until you stop with this painfully obvious propaganda, I can't take you any more seriously than I do my 6 year old niece.

You are adorable though, how hard you try!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#599 - 2016-04-26 13:38:06 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
I haven't read the entire thread to be honest, but i'm wondering what point you're trying to make. IWI's isk is funding 2 alliances, not all the 20+ in the MBC. The CFC has roughly the same amount of ISK as the entire MBC combined, but the people who control it don't feel like spending it. IWI was a catalyst to get events rolling, nothing more - If you think that IWI is the only thing that keeps the conflict going, i guess (ex) CFC line members have been brainwashed more than i thought.
I don;t think the Imperium have anywhere close to the ongoing ISK coming in from IWI. And I don't think IWI stopping will stop the war, I don;t even think the funding of the war was a bad thing, it's very good and has created a huge amount of content. The problem I have is that a third party application is still being used to allow an enormous amount of income that would not be possible without it. Having anyone able to source that level of income using a method that can't be countered by in-game mechanics is a bad thing.

Not to mention that IWI is almost guaranteed to be involved in RMT, which is now pretty much confirmed by CCP.

Reiisha wrote:
Any discussion about IWI has no relevance whatsoever on 'providing an advantage', as they provide very little of it if at all. ISK alone doesn't set up logistics chains, manufacturing locations, FC's, fleet members or even competence. If you believe that just having ISK provides any advantage whatsoever, look at CFC: All that isk, and they still have less space than a newbie alliance.
Take ISBoxer or bots as examples. Those too allowed the collection of isk at a greater rate, and didn' set up logistics chains, manufacturing locations, FC's, fleet members or even competence. Yet they are deemed to be an unfair advantage because a normal player playing the game as it is would have no hope of competing with them. Just like no player using normal gameplay mechanics has any hope of competing with IWI.

Isaac Armer wrote:
You've repeatedly point-blank ignored the 3rd party apps that every major alliance uses to gain isk while condemning IWI.
Except of course that I haven't. I specifically mentioned multiple other applications, I've answered your questions on them and explained exactly why I feel some are bigger problems than others. That's not ignoring them. If you choose to not bother reading that, your incredible failure to make a reasonable counterargument is entirely on you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#600 - 2016-04-26 13:50:34 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Except of course that I haven't. I specifically mentioned multiple other applications, I've answered your questions on them and explained exactly why I feel some are bigger problems than others. That's not ignoring them. If you choose to not bother reading that, your incredible failure to make a reasonable counterargument is entirely on you.


Right right, you casually dismissed them as 'not a big deal' so you could keep up your whining.

Gotcha. Lukey, when you're the only one who has your opinion out of dozens upon dozens of people you talk to, what does that say?

I look forward to more of your mental gymnastics.