Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Current Stats:

Impairor - 115 m3
Ibis - 125 m3
Reaper - 120 m3
Velator - 130 m3

Right now the Impairor and Reaper cannot fit 300 liquid ozone in their cargo for cyno level 4 (the reaper has a rounding bug that stops it). I suggest raising all cargo to at least 125 m3 to enable all races to do cynos without needed cargo expanders at cyno level 4.

I say we go the other way and make sure none of them can with cyno V

Just train your Cyno Alts to also be Covert Cynos Alts, and then you will already have Cyno V, problem solved :P

No maybe you should use a real frigate and not the rookie ship for your purposes, just because something doesn't fit your use doesn't mean it should be changed

I don't think it matters, given that the rookie ship with cargo fittings will almost always cost more than a probe frigate without.

Perhaps all should be able to cyno without fittings at skill 4 or 5, and with fittings at lower skills.

If my math is correct, currently they can all do it at skill 5. The minimum skill for each one to cyno without fittings is:
Impairor: 5
Ibis: 4
Velator: 4
Reaper: 4

If all of them had their cargo increased by 5m3, their minimum skill would be:
Impairor: 4
Ibis: 4
Velator: 4
Reaper: 4

Another way to handle it could be to give the Impairor 3 low slots and 1 mid slot, and the Ibis 1 low slot and 3 mid slots.

This.

And to the two arguing about training into the noob ships and/or choosing race based of which one can act as a cyno ship, the noob ships don't require any training.

You need to read.


No one said you needed to train a noobship.
EDIT: I guess Donna did phrase it that way, but getting hung up on something we both know to mean pick the right rookie ship and train the cyno skill is kinda rich.


Donna proposed a scenario from the perspective of someone intentionally making a cyno char(who has knowledge of the game). I put it from the perspective of someone who doesn't. I then expanded on the discrepancy from a possible angle of a new player, and how this discrepancy in cargo sizes negatively impacts them as well, without any clear indication of how or why they are being so penalized.


I'm fine with noob ships being unable to light cyno's. I've said it two or three times now. But, whichever way it goes, all 4 need to be on the same page. Not because us bitter vets can't figure out which race to make our alts, but because new people don't have the luxury of that prior knowledge and are given no indicator when choosing their character as to the differences. Why do noobships need to have different cargo sizes? Every player in Eve gets one when they dock in station with no ships in it. It's not like you're going into character creation and picking a ship. You're building your barbie and what it looks like. Why does 1 need to be penalized over the other 3, in pretty much the one aspect that you can differentiate them with any real consequence?



@Phoenix That's fine. Then all 4 will be on the same page, and the newbro won't figure out a year in 'well crap I shouldn't have picked Amarr.'

Given that rookie ships can be sold on the market, I don't see how this is an issue. If your Amarrian character has cyno trained to 4 and you're desperate for a cheap throw-away cyno ship, and you can't be arsed to buy a Magnate for significantly less than the cyno module costs, then just check the market for any of the other three rookie ships. If there's none for sale at any reasonable price, then bug any non-Amarrian friendly in station to get you a rookie ship.

I'll save you a bit of frustration and remind you that the Ni-Kunni are, in fact, Amarrian even if they don't seem like it.

Oh please spare me your now supposedly huge concern for the new players, especially when you post an argument that can be counter with half a brain cell active. SO wait for it. By time he has trained his main into cap ships and needs a cyno pilot your theoretical player would already fully understand the limitation of the various ships and could have a dozen or more alts started and properly trained to use the right rookie ship as a cyno.


Nice try, IF, and please note that I say IF the OP had asked for the changes based on this reason I might have been inclined to agree with them. I say "might" have been because any new player that is going to mine is going to be in a venture after the first day or two anyway so this whole cargo size thing is irrelevant.


You are so right here and yet you still draw the wrong conclusions from it.
EvE is about choices, it is also about the consequences of those choices, and after working with new players since I started in 2009 the sooner they learn this fundamental aspect of everything they will ever do in EvE the better off they will be. If the hold size differences in the rookie ships can help some of them learn this then it is valid simply for that fact, especially early in the game when it is so cheap, quick and easy to overcome.

Moving on to the "bitter all over me" thing, again you are right but you are so wrong.
I am bitter, Like you I have played this game since 2009 and like those who started before us and then complained about us we worked and waited sometimes a month or more for skills etc to train that new characters today are given the moment the go live one the server. In many ways there has been good to come from this and in some ways there has been a lot of bad from it. I see significantly more entitlement attitude in the new players I work with these days than I ever have in the past. And I see significantly less inclination to work and wait for the next level to come. Are the gifts given at birth all of the reason for that, probably not, but at the same time we have to accept that those gifts are a part of those changes. In the end new players in any game will always be at a disadvantage and nothing a game company can give them when they start a new character can or ever will change that so we have to look at it from that angle as well.


I already covered this one. No one in the game should be able to get a FREE ship to be used as a cyno, unless it is supplied by a corp / alliance ship replacement program and the only way to make that happens is to limit rookie ships so none of them can use a cyno. Cargo capacity is just one way that could be done, but considering the early game reinforcement choices and consequences they provide and at a relatively insignificant level I am all for them staying in the game.