Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It is an MMO. There is nothing more powerful than a friend. But you do the game a disservice by saying to the legions of solo PvPers that they should stop solo PvPing. Are you going to look at Mr. Hyde and say " don't fly alone... Its a MMO where teamwork can really make a difference."? Solo work is powerful, challenging, and the rewards are enormous. Not everything in Eve must be done in groups.

Flying alone is not what it used to be, but through cherry picking your fights you can do well, but don't cry when you find you have been perfectly countered.

If you can't stand the heat of getting perfectly screwed, don't fly alone.

You can pilot outside the optimal range of ECM and regain target lock, if you are faster than the ship Jamming you just like you can burn into a ship range Damping if you are faster than them considering all active mods being used by each party.

You are trying to make an edge case within a very limited scope to solely suit your purposes.

You do realize that optimal on a max skilled Blackbird is 72KM with another 79KM in falloff? 72KM+79KM is not exactly "Burn out then back in" kind of range. Typically the kinds of ships than can hit from 72KM+79KM away are not exactly fast moving and quicker ships typically can't hit from that range. So no, you really can't "You can pilot outside the optimal range of ECM and regain target lock" and do damage before you get jammed again.


FINALLY A QUESTION ABOUT MY PROPOSAL! IT ONLY TOOK THREE PAGES OF POSTS!

As of right now SDs are the easiest and most effective EWAR out there against all sizes of gangs. It's such a problem that CCP limited it pretty hard in the AT and F*** You fleets of Celestis are cheap and highly effective. I won't argue that it is OP, but as far as T1 EWAR is concerned, SDs are pretty much the shining star.

So as far as my proposal is concerned T1 Gallente EWAR would probably the 7.5% effectiveness/10% optimal bonus found on Amarr T1 EWAR ships, but for Missile Guidance Disruptors. Caldari T1 EWAR would get the same treatment for Drone Disruptors and Caldari T2 would pick up the 7.5% effectiveness and 7.5% optimal/falloff for sensor damps.

tl;dr same damp effectiveness, but instead of it being on T1 Gallente hulls it would be on T2 Caldari hulls. Not a nerf, you just have to use different ships.

I am glad I am gathering fans.

You see the issue with ECM is that many people who use, or have ECM used on them, readily recognize that ECM isn't counterable by piloting, sucks because its unpredictable because it chanced based, and binary. Those three things are exactly what makes ECM work and be "balanced" (The quotes are there because people have vastly differing opinions on what makes ECM balanced.) Despite hundreds, if not thousands, of threads suggesting fixes to those three core issues, no one has found a way to modify those core issues in a way such that ECM isn't overpowered or underpowered. No single suggestion has been even mildly workable. Therefore, it would seem that the best course of action would be to cut out losses by removing ECM and replacing it with more balanced and balanceable EWAR.

Your proposals shuffle the deck (out of sorts) and depend on introducing new modules and mechanics to compensate for Caldari losing a primary bonus. Missile damps for Gall, Drone disruptor for Caldari?
No please.

Simplify and deal with ecm (and this thread is now redundant) without fuzzling a solution.

Edit. Everyone with a sebo recently got a buff vs ecm.

Nice to see you changed the elements of the question after you got an answer that didn't fit your cherry picked edge case.

Your question was if you could pilot out of the effect of ECM as you can do with other EWAR, the answer is YES, even if your narrow test only considers close up fights it doesn't invalidate that fact.

You don't need to go full optimal + full fall off to significantly improve your chances of avoiding the Jams and plenty of ships can hit that far.

Fitting to counter being jammed is easy.

Trying to invalidate a mechanic where the player takes no precautions fitting his ship against that mechanic goes against the core of this game.


You can fit your ship to mitigate the effects of Jamming and you can fly your ship out of the effective range of jamming to have a better chance to maintain target lock and hit the target providing you are flying the right ship with the right fit.

Trying to say you must be able to do that in all ships ( or even most) and all fits (or even typical) is like saying you must be able to slow boat a Megathron to within blaster range of a Celestis who is damping you and slow boating away from you at max speed.


Edit: Or even with Mega and Celest fitting MWDs (or any other typical fit)

Despite the players who feel ECM is the oddball out in the EWAR mechanics I feel that it is simply the opposite of Range Damps.

Range Damps can prevent you locking at extreme ranges and promotes close range combat.
ECM can prevent you from locking at close ranges and promotes long range combat.

I think the issue is that they overlap at mid ranges where with the combination of both you can prevent locking targets very effectively across a fleet.



A solution might be to create a sweet spot at mid ranges where neither Damps or Jams are very effective. If you kite too far out, you run the risk of being damped. If you come in too close you run the risk of being jammed, either of which risk can be mitigated through fitting.

So Jams are very good close up similar to Heavy Stasis Graplers and Damps are very good at extended ranges. But in the middle where both close range weapons and long range weapons are fairly effective neither Jams or Range Damps can affect you much.

So if you do want to close range brawl, you fit to prevent jamming. If you want to long range snipe you fit the prevent Damps, but if you just want to kite a bit you don't need to worry too much unless one of your targets are really far away and you get damped or a Jamming ship gets too close to you and you get Jammed.

The biggest issue with this besides the current optimal and fallout ranges of both Range Damps and Jams is the fact that Jammer ships tend to be weak tank wise. I would suggest that they get buffed to HAC level and with above changes they would only be great at Jamming if you don't fit to prevent it and they get very close to you.

Now the Sweet spot where neither Jamming or Range Damps work well should probably be balanced roughly around Medium Turrets in my opinion but that is wide open for suggestions.

Just remember for ECM the issue would be how close the Jammer is to you, for Range Damps its how close is the current primary is to you.

As a result of this Jamming can work to counter Logi if you Jamming ships get very close to part of the Logi Chain, but if Logi gets to far from each other they risk being Range Damped.

Just some ideas I came up with as a result of this thread.

It will if you get out of the jamming ships lock range. So it's what did you say? Not probable but it is possible

That is an edge case. I asked around. Unconfirmed at this point if it will. Because technically the module is still active on you, you are just out of range. Range checks happen at the beginning of the cycle, and will stay active until the next cycle where it will fail the range check. For example: If I point you and you get beyond range you are still pointed until the cycle finishes. Helpful when tackling things because it gives you a second or two to overheat if they are out of range.

tl;dr: You might still be jammed even if you move beyond the ECM ship's lock range because you were jammed when you were in it.