These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Introduce fines for suicide ganking
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Adaros Pantelesis
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2016-04-22 14:05:23 UTC
I've been paying attention to the killboard lately and see alot of freighter/jf ganking going on. The current great "war" is kind of onesided, and it looks like goons have moved to hisec to gank instead, which is totally fine.

However one of the most hated and loved mechanic in the game is still kinda broken. I really dont mind ganking, but its close to no cost and risk for the ganker. Like in rl there should be a fine for "breaking the law", lets say 100-150mil. This prevents some from doing meaningless ganks, and rather focus on the big and juicy fishes out there. Being concorded in a 2mil catalyst and get a sec hit isnt a punishment compared to losing a 8bil jf.

Tldr introduce fines for suicide gankings which makes it more expensive. 100-150mil per char would do.
Sorry if this has been proposed before
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-04-22 14:20:14 UTC
No, go away.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2016-04-22 14:42:04 UTC
"One more nerf and it will be balanced!"

Also gonna say no. People should learn to "play defensively" with their stuff even in high-sec. The issue is that most don't.

How did you Veterans start?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2016-04-22 14:50:33 UTC

Nope. Poor players should be able to gank the dumb and lazy to make money.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-04-22 15:44:47 UTC
Don't they already pay in ships?
Jack AmarrX
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-04-22 15:53:20 UTC
3 minute maximum warp align time is plenty.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#7 - 2016-04-22 16:00:04 UTC
Jack AmarrX wrote:
3 minute maximum warp align time is plenty.


Luckily kaarous isn't around to see that...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2016-04-22 16:05:10 UTC
Well, as stated by CCP during Fanfest panel "Ships & Modules" earlier today, they said they were adding anti-bump mechanics to freighters. The change they're making is that nomatter how much you bump a freighter, it'll go into warp within 3 minutes.

So unless you get the freighter pointed within the 3 minutes, it is going to warp off.
Kieron VonDeux
#9 - 2016-04-22 17:09:29 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Well, as stated by CCP during Fanfest panel "Ships & Modules" earlier today, they said they were adding anti-bump mechanics to freighters. The change they're making is that nomatter how much you bump a freighter, it'll go into warp within 3 minutes.

So unless you get the freighter pointed within the 3 minutes, it is going to warp off.



It wasn't specifically mentioned for freighters, but any ship that is trying to warp such as ones that get hung up on stations and other structures.
Ferrus Kanus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-04-22 18:43:02 UTC
which isnt a very serious nerf, as it was common strategy for code to point a freighter to prevent it from going offline anyway, ie suicide point atron. That will add an extra cost of maybe 2-3 mil per gank at most? And no to fines, they pay already in the ships they sacrifice and the loot pickup is 50%, meaning they are already punished alot, as well as faction police constantly chasing them
Black Pedro
Mine.
#11 - 2016-04-22 18:45:07 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Well, as stated by CCP during Fanfest panel "Ships & Modules" earlier today, they said they were adding anti-bump mechanics to freighters. The change they're making is that nomatter how much you bump a freighter, it'll go into warp within 3 minutes.

So unless you get the freighter pointed within the 3 minutes, it is going to warp off.



It wasn't specifically mentioned for freighters, but any ship that is trying to warp such as ones that get hung up on stations and other structures.


Of course it was. Fozzie even apologized in his Canadian way to Warr Akini before he announced it.

But OP, I am confused with your plan. Would I get fined 100M ISK if I gank a capsule or a shuttle? Would I get fined 100M ISK if I gank an AFK Retriever? What about an empty freighter where I gain nothing and lose hundreds of millions of ISK in gank ships?

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-04-22 18:55:30 UTC
you know this game play that currently anyone can take part in? yeah lets out a pay wall on that so its only something wealthy people can do

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Adaros Pantelesis
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2016-04-22 19:31:21 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Well, as stated by CCP during Fanfest panel "Ships & Modules" earlier today, they said they were adding anti-bump mechanics to freighters. The change they're making is that nomatter how much you bump a freighter, it'll go into warp within 3 minutes.

So unless you get the freighter pointed within the 3 minutes, it is going to warp off.



It wasn't specifically mentioned for freighters, but any ship that is trying to warp such as ones that get hung up on stations and other structures.


Of course it was. Fozzie even apologized in his Canadian way to Warr Akini before he announced it.

But OP, I am confused with your plan. Would I get fined 100M ISK if I gank a capsule or a shuttle? Would I get fined 100M ISK if I gank an AFK Retriever? What about an empty freighter where I gain nothing and lose hundreds of millions of ISK in gank ships?





Could be a formula based on current build prices. A pod is tricky though as it may be worth 0isk or 5bil in implants. It could function like bounties do, but in a negative way. Instead of based on current total bounty, the fine % will be based on build cost/sell orders. Tbh the 3min change isnt helping much to prevent ganking. If you havent died or cynoed out during those 3mins you're kinda useless. The current risk/cost is simply too low compared to gains. Ganking itself is fine.
If people are willing to make new trial accounts to prevent the fine(negative wallets), then go for it. Makes it a little more effort atleast. As for making new toons on an active account- it should claim isk for any character with a wallet on the account used for ganking.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2016-04-22 19:35:38 UTC
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
it should claim isk for any character with a wallet on the account used for ganking.



Oh, are we playing the 'lets stack more and more rules onto an already awful idea' game?

What happens if I gank your barge with a character on an account with zero isk? Does it take my assets?

Which then becomes what about one with zero assets who picks catalysts up from in space, and so on and so forth.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#15 - 2016-04-22 19:47:39 UTC
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
The current risk/cost is simply too low compared to gains. Ganking itself is fine.
I am still confused.

If ganking is fine, why do we need to make it not happen by raising the cost?

And if you think the cost is too low, why not just argue for shorter CONCORD times so that gankers have to use more or more expensive ships? Or argue for regularly ganked ships to have more EHP?

But ultimately, I want to know how you will determine when things are balanced? What is the correct cost to gank say a freighter carrying 3B ISK in cargo, or say a jump freighter with a 5BISK load?

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Adaros Pantelesis
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2016-04-22 21:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Adaros Pantelesis
Danika Princip wrote:
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
it should claim isk for any character with a wallet on the account used for ganking.


What happens if I gank your barge with a character on an account with zero isk? Does it take my assets?

Which then becomes what about one with zero assets who picks catalysts up from in space, and so on and so forth.


Im talking about isk, so assets wont matter. If you dont have enough isk, wallet will be negative. If other characters on the same account has isk, but not the ganking-char, then that character will get the fine. Trial characters obviously wont get hit hard cos negative wallet wont matter for them as the char will only have a lifetime of two weeks.



Black Pedro wrote:
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
The current risk/cost is simply too low compared to gains. Ganking itself is fine.
I am still confused.

If ganking is fine, why do we need to make it not happen by raising the cost?

And if you think the cost is too low, why not just argue for shorter CONCORD times so that gankers have to use more or more expensive ships? Or argue for regularly ganked ships to have more EHP?

But ultimately, I want to know how you will determine when things are balanced? What is the correct cost to gank say a freighter carrying 3B ISK in cargo, or say a jump freighter with a 5BISK load?



Ganking is fine as a mechanic, but adding fines will force people to pick their targets with valuable cargo rather than ganking random jfs for fun. Shorter concord-time will probably be answered with more catalysts or stealth bombers (like some are using now). More ehp will also change gameplay for wardecs, lowsec and 0,0 pvp/people being caught under "normal" circumstances which isnt something I would favour (even though a small buff wouldnt hurt).

Prices on fines can be set either by shipclass where industrials cost way more to gank than other ships, or ~1,5% of total value lost by victim. Point is to reduce random ganking og non-valuable targets and let those who do this for profit choose more wisely.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2016-04-22 22:00:12 UTC
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
it should claim isk for any character with a wallet on the account used for ganking.


What happens if I gank your barge with a character on an account with zero isk? Does it take my assets?

Which then becomes what about one with zero assets who picks catalysts up from in space, and so on and so forth.


Im talking about isk, so assets wont matter. If you dont have enough isk, wallet will be negative. If other characters on the same account has isk, but not the ganking-char, then that character will get the fine. Trial characters obviously wont get hit hard cos negative wallet wont matter for them as the char will only have a lifetime of two weeks.




Oh, so all I have to do is use an alt account with no ISK on it, and I can gank to my heart's content?

Does the ISK go to the victim or is it just taken?
Adaros Pantelesis
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2016-04-22 22:57:03 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
it should claim isk for any character with a wallet on the account used for ganking.


What happens if I gank your barge with a character on an account with zero isk? Does it take my assets?

Which then becomes what about one with zero assets who picks catalysts up from in space, and so on and so forth.


Im talking about isk, so assets wont matter. If you dont have enough isk, wallet will be negative. If other characters on the same account has isk, but not the ganking-char, then that character will get the fine. Trial characters obviously wont get hit hard cos negative wallet wont matter for them as the char will only have a lifetime of two weeks.




Oh, so all I have to do is use an alt account with no ISK on it, and I can gank to my heart's content?

Does the ISK go to the victim or is it just taken?


na, if you dont have isk on the account, the wallet will be negative (-100mil in wallet means you wont be able to make any contracts or buy anything from that account at all until the wallet is back at positive).. Sure, there are ways to avoid this, and this is just an idea that needs to be more worked on. But the idea is to make it more expensive to gank. Isk shouldnt go to victim, but removed from game like any other tax.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2016-04-22 23:15:09 UTC
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:


na, if you dont have isk on the account, the wallet will be negative (-100mil in wallet means you wont be able to make any contracts or buy anything from that account at all until the wallet is back at positive).. Sure, there are ways to avoid this, and this is just an idea that needs to be more worked on. But the idea is to make it more expensive to gank. Isk shouldnt go to victim, but removed from game like any other tax.


So all you do is poop cats out of an orca before your gank, it's not hard to avoid something like this.
Paranoid Loyd
#20 - 2016-04-22 23:20:32 UTC
Adaros Pantelesis wrote:
but its close to no cost and risk for the ganker.
It's of no cost to not be lazy and properly protect your assets.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
12Next page