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Limited Cyno generators: command ship generated pings
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Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-04-20 18:14:47 UTC
This is a module intended to allow command-oriented ships to give fleet-mates a point to warp to, essentially a remote bookmark in the middle of space. It would use the new Tactical UI to place it.

They generate a object that is visible to everyone but only warpable by fleet-mates, if that's possible. If not, maybe make it only visible to fleet-mates but have a nice graphics effect.

They also use fuel, probably Ozone.


Larges can fit on carriers and supercarriers, and maybe titans.
Mediums are used on command ships.
Smalls are used on Link-fit t3s and Command destroyers.

There are also covert versions which can be used while cloaked.
Medium Covert can be used by blops.
Small Covert can be used by force recon (and Stratios).
There could be a micro covert for covops frigs, but I think it fits FR better.


Tech 2 and higher meta modules could have increased range, reduced fuel need, etc.
Jadek Kin
Incorruptibles
#2 - 2016-04-20 18:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadek Kin
I like it!

Additional questions:
-Does the command ship have to remain on grid for the bookmark pings to remain in space?
-Is there a limit to how many can be deployed per player?
-What would be the maximum range for point warp placement? 250km? 2500km? The size of the grid?

@JadekMenaheim
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-04-20 19:48:47 UTC
Jadek Kin wrote:
I like it!

Additional questions:
-Does the command ship have to remain on grid for the bookmark pings to remain in space?
-Is there a limit to how many can be deployed per player?
-What would be the maximum range for point warp placement? 250km? 2500km? The size of the grid?


I would say:
-Yes.
-Yes, maybe Skill Level for smalls, 5 + Skill Level for mediums, and 10 + Skill Level for larges. Skill Level is probably the module skill.
-Either grid or ~500km + 100k*Skill Level. Could be the same skill as above or a different one.

Something else about the skills: The modifier skills could overlap with the jump and cyno skills.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-04-20 21:42:33 UTC
Sounds solid. I don't like the idea of a covert one of these, too powerful and hard to counter, if you want to set up bombing runs do the legwork before hand or have a fleet member make you a bombing perch.

As for nit picking it, maybe have it so that anyone can use it, but you have to lock it before you can warp to it. The advantage here being that when it is launched the fleet who's commander launched it will automatically start targeting the beacon. yes this means if your targeting is full you won't get the auto target of the beacon, this is intended.

This gives the side that launched it a step up on their enemy. Further it could be a timed lock for the users while a signature based lock for their enemies. This means all fleet members could lock in say 5 seconds while the enemy must lock based on their targeting stats on their ships.

Further once the ship that has launched it gets within 2500m of it, they can start scooping it or dissipating it. This would take a few seconds but could deny the enemy the chance to warp in on the new beacon entirely. While they're doing this they can't move or use modules though they can receive remote help.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2016-04-20 22:26:52 UTC
-1 it removes the need for on grid probing and makes any sort of kite fleet worthless even if they do fix the minimum warp range issue

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#6 - 2016-04-20 22:34:52 UTC
This mod does absolutely terrible things to tactical positioning of fleets.

What's the point of kiting your fleet in at 80 so your opponents can't warp in on you if they can just spit out a BM 100 km behind you and warp to 100 on it?\

What's the point of dropping a stop bubble between you and them if they can just drop a BM in the right place to let them skirt the edge of the bubble and land near you?

And it allows absolutely stupid things like allowing you to warp people in on a target while not being anywhere near them, or in line on the other side of the fleets position. Opponent kiting you at 100km and you don't have a BM near him, or a tackler that can get near him without dying? Don't worry, use this super convenient tool and warp everyone onto him!

And absolutely no on the cloaked version. Period. In absolutely no way ever should a cloaked ship be able to create a tangible effect while cloaked. Being able to stay cloaked and safe while providing spot on warpins while at a safe distance and cloaked would be incredibly broken.

Position control is amazingly important in this game, an FC who knows where to be and how to move to prepare for a large variety of situations is probably a good FC. And this idea trivializes that.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-04-20 23:47:46 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
-1 it removes the need for on grid probing and makes any sort of kite fleet worthless even if they do fix the minimum warp range issue


By on grid probing you mean moving probes on top of you to get warping on your target? Cause I really don't see the need for that...

But about kite fits, the way I envisioned it is that there would be an cyno-like effect in space a good 15s before it was warp-able, so the kite fir would have plenty of time to move off.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-04-20 23:51:50 UTC
Lyra Gerie wrote:
Sounds solid. I don't like the idea of a covert one of these, too powerful and hard to counter, if you want to set up bombing runs do the legwork before hand or have a fleet member make you a bombing perch.

As for nit picking it, maybe have it so that anyone can use it, but you have to lock it before you can warp to it. The advantage here being that when it is launched the fleet who's commander launched it will automatically start targeting the beacon. yes this means if your targeting is full you won't get the auto target of the beacon, this is intended.

This gives the side that launched it a step up on their enemy. Further it could be a timed lock for the users while a signature based lock for their enemies. This means all fleet members could lock in say 5 seconds while the enemy must lock based on their targeting stats on their ships.

Further once the ship that has launched it gets within 2500m of it, they can start scooping it or dissipating it. This would take a few seconds but could deny the enemy the chance to warp in on the new beacon entirely. While they're doing this they can't move or use modules though they can receive remote help.


I see your point. I would still like covert ones to exist (with minimal effects in space) for sneaking up on ships, but they would be limited by fuel (like 1 max per ship), and range (like 50-100km).

Also, remember that the enemy fleet isn''t supposed to be able to warp to it.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-04-20 23:55:32 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
This mod does absolutely terrible things to tactical positioning of fleets.

What's the point of kiting your fleet in at 80 so your opponents can't warp in on you if they can just spit out a BM 100 km behind you and warp to 100 on it?\

What's the point of dropping a stop bubble between you and them if they can just drop a BM in the right place to let them skirt the edge of the bubble and land near you?

And it allows absolutely stupid things like allowing you to warp people in on a target while not being anywhere near them, or in line on the other side of the fleets position. Opponent kiting you at 100km and you don't have a BM near him, or a tackler that can get near him without dying? Don't worry, use this super convenient tool and warp everyone onto him!

And absolutely no on the cloaked version. Period. In absolutely no way ever should a cloaked ship be able to create a tangible effect while cloaked. Being able to stay cloaked and safe while providing spot on warpins while at a safe distance and cloaked would be incredibly broken.

Position control is amazingly important in this game, an FC who knows where to be and how to move to prepare for a large variety of situations is probably a good FC. And this idea trivializes that.


A lot of this is already possible via warping to fleet mates. You can have a cloaky ship give you a 50km warpin while cloaked and accomplish the same thing.

I agree with you about positioning, but a good FC will be able to move their fleet away from the beacon before the enemy fleet even warps there.

Something I didn't mention is that there should be a 30-60s cooldown. So no rapid movement of fleets.

This is designed to counter kiting a bit.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#10 - 2016-04-21 00:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Ligraph wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
This mod does absolutely terrible things to tactical positioning of fleets.

What's the point of kiting your fleet in at 80 so your opponents can't warp in on you if they can just spit out a BM 100 km behind you and warp to 100 on it?\

What's the point of dropping a stop bubble between you and them if they can just drop a BM in the right place to let them skirt the edge of the bubble and land near you?

And it allows absolutely stupid things like allowing you to warp people in on a target while not being anywhere near them, or in line on the other side of the fleets position. Opponent kiting you at 100km and you don't have a BM near him, or a tackler that can get near him without dying? Don't worry, use this super convenient tool and warp everyone onto him!

And absolutely no on the cloaked version. Period. In absolutely no way ever should a cloaked ship be able to create a tangible effect while cloaked. Being able to stay cloaked and safe while providing spot on warpins while at a safe distance and cloaked would be incredibly broken.

Position control is amazingly important in this game, an FC who knows where to be and how to move to prepare for a large variety of situations is probably a good FC. And this idea trivializes that.


A lot of this is already possible via warping to fleet mates. You can have a cloaky ship give you a 50km warpin while cloaked and accomplish the same thing.

I agree with you about positioning, but a good FC will be able to move their fleet away from the beacon before the enemy fleet even warps there.

Something I didn't mention is that there should be a 30-60s cooldown. So no rapid movement of fleets.

This is designed to counter kiting a bit.


Getting cloakers into perfect position in a chaotic battlefield is hard. Really hard. Magically handwaving it away as "well it's currently achievable with excellent preplanning and extra pilots hiding cloaked around the grid, so it's fine if this new module can do the same mounted on a destroyer" is just bad. Also understand that the FC can't see where the cloaker is, it's not readily available information unless the person cloaked talks it out in the middle of a fleet fight.

Also, 15 seconds is not all that long. Drop a beacon directly on a fleet of MWDing Cerbs for example, and 15 seconds later they are 30-35km ahead, and still in point range of an inty warping to that location. Drop one ahead of the fleet in the direction of travel and it's 2-3 seconds to notice and react, another 1-2 to change direction (Dumping speed in the change), and if they are 15km away from the target point when the warp beacon goes up they are lucky.

If you are trying to kite an enemy fleet that could butcher you if they land on you, seeing a warp beacon start to spool up ahead of you means you have to warp off. You cant fight them at close range, and you can't manually fly away from the warp point fast enough to get out of point range.

You really don't understand just how massively powerful a tool this would be.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2016-04-21 12:23:47 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
-1 it removes the need for on grid probing and makes any sort of kite fleet worthless even if they do fix the minimum warp range issue


By on grid probing you mean moving probes on top of you to get warping on your target? Cause I really don't see the need for that...

Yet you prapose a module trivialising the endevour to the exact same net effect.

Nope -1 , get a prober alt, or befriend someone in your corp with one.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#12 - 2016-04-21 12:58:41 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
A lot of this is already possible via warping to fleet mates. You can have a cloaky ship give you a 50km warpin while cloaked and accomplish the same thing.

-1 because virtually everything you want is already possible by using a cloaked fleet mate I say no to your idea.

-1 because I agree with Ralph King-Griffin.