These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1861 - 2016-04-17 16:57:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!


How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?



Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1862 - 2016-04-17 17:02:51 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!

Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".


How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction?

Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned?


Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP.



Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings Roll

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1863 - 2016-04-17 17:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!


How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?


By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007.

After all, no one would be losing anything, right?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1864 - 2016-04-17 17:12:59 UTC
This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting.
Erihn Sabrovich
#1865 - 2016-04-17 17:23:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!


How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?


Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss


This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP...

Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else)
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#1866 - 2016-04-17 17:30:42 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!


How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?


Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss


This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP...

Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else)


Actually you are correct, not using +5s is losing out on potential SP. However this is a risk vs. reward situation.

Not optimizing your skill plan is also losing out on SP, but that is based on your ability to plan ahead and see it through.

However, this daily reward is a loss of potential based solely on if you are willing to put yourself as slave to the grind. Logging in, day in, day out, without fail. If you have a field op in the military? SP Lost. Going for a week long vacation? Better bring a laptop and hope for good wifi.

In the old system, I could get over the fact that I can't play for a while by loading up +5s, optimizing my plan, and walking away, confident that my progress was going to be awesome, because I was ready, but now I have to deal with the fact that I can't play EVE AND I am losing out of my advancement because of it.

One of the fundamental awesome things about EVE is that progress IS NOT TIED to activity in a direct lock in. I can understand that changing some, having more impact than full optimization, AND full implants is simply too much. The feeling of double punishment if you can't log in is enough to cause people to just not come back.

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#1867 - 2016-04-17 17:36:19 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!


How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?


Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss


This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP...

Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else)


The difference is that all those things are fully in the control of the players. You decide if you want to spend 7 hours 1 day or 1 hour 7 days to farm the isk needed for these things.

Dailies on the other hand take this out of the hands of the players. You have to log in each day instead of just playing more on 1-2 days a week.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1868 - 2016-04-17 17:38:24 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting.


Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1869 - 2016-04-17 17:40:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!

Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".


How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction?

Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned?


Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP.



Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings Roll


I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1870 - 2016-04-17 17:45:34 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!

Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".


How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction?

Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned?


Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP.



Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings Roll


I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...


Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1871 - 2016-04-17 17:49:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...


Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about.


And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1872 - 2016-04-17 17:59:53 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...


Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about.


And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings



In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1873 - 2016-04-17 18:01:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!


How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?


By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007.

After all, no one would be losing anything, right?


No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know.

BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1874 - 2016-04-17 18:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
doublepost
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1875 - 2016-04-17 18:08:16 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know.

BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in.


So you've been playing EVE longer than I have. Please explain your failure to grasp basic game mechanics in two paragraphs max.

Malcanis wrote:
In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers"


Ha! As if. Have you seen the monthly economy reports?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1876 - 2016-04-17 18:19:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!


How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?


By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007.

After all, no one would be losing anything, right?


No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know.

BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in.


No you see you would only be able to train a skill for 24hrs it's easy every 24hrs you're skill queue passes.

Also not getting SP is the same as losing even from what I understand the literal interpretation of losing is. Last I checked it was simply being deprived something. You don't need to have something first in order to be deprived of it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1877 - 2016-04-17 18:20:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting.


Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat.

Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.'
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1878 - 2016-04-17 18:23:57 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting.


Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat.

Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.'


Actually, it's extremely trivial to spot. Bots do things that humans don't, because they can't. You just need to be looking.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1879 - 2016-04-17 18:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting.


Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat.

Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.'


Actually, it's extremely trivial to spot. Bots do things that humans don't, because they can't. You just need to be looking.


And the last time I was in null I saw just how good ccp was at spotting and stopping bots Roll

Doesn't matter though not our not it's the same to ccp in this case

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1880 - 2016-04-17 18:54:24 UTC
Bot extermination is a lot more layered and nuanced than simply spotting them. Usually you see a banwave every few months, but I'd rather not get into it.