EVE General Discussion

The Mittani and GSF leadership aren't going this year afaik. I'm sure plenty of goons are going, but they might not be goons by the time it actually goes around.



Since, you know, we're all busy burning them to the ground.

I guess that makes using TS3 to do, well, ANYTHING in game rule breaking.

Maybe what we're seeing is just the power a bank style group can have in a game like EvE, money is power after all. IWI was able to generate isk from players from all walks of life, it has skimmed profit from a large market and now has the ability to use that money to pay for war on a massive scale. This ability is too much for an out-of-game entity with no route to attack them so I have to agree with Lucas on this. Though I'd be very interested to see just how much isk IWI have in fact paid out to mercs, I'd wager that they got a big discount for how disliked mittani and goons have become.

That doesn't fix the problem though does it? Imagine if they resolved botting by saying "OK, well everyone else can just bot then".

Two things, one, The Mittani DID launch a gambling site, it failed miserably. Because even his own membership didn't like it. So complaining that its not fair that somebody else did a gambling site better than you is just lame. Two, you literally JUST SAID that TS3 is indeed available to anybody. Just like a website is. Which you can put gambling stuff on. You're just bad at it.



Not to mention IM clients, private forums, and all of the cloak and dagger tools that spies and counterspies in EVE use every day to try and gain in game advantages. All of which the emporium uses, and STILL can't seem to do anything but lose space and moons.

What is the diffrence betweem IWI and some random ultra rich NPC corp margin trader sitting in Jita?

Both are 'intouchable' by in-game means, especially since a multi trillionaire trader would and will use an alt to anounce financing a war.

Complaining about one or the other is pointless, both are invulnerable to in-game retaliation.

I understand what you are trying to say but I think you missed what I was saying. He has a hard time attacking that stream of funds because of his own status in the game. He appears to have made something of a tactical blunder by trying to take the fight outside of the game and take down IWI with RL legalish mechanisms and complaints to CCP. This was a non-winner from the get go and while I understand his frustration, he's actually fighting himself here since there would be no lasting war without him being whom he is.

Being a 'bank' or 'out of game' is something of irrelevancy. They function entirely off an in-game ISK stream. Without players adding to that stream, there is no money or will to fight. So, what causes that ISK stream is where you 'attack' them. Player perception of this is everything.

If the Goonswarm looses this fight, it's not because they didn't try to defend their Imperium, or try to put out 'propaganda', it will be because their leader has made enough enemies of other players with just his personality/actions that it painted a target on him. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just an observation from a 3rd party stance. I'm a neutral.

I could offer him some advice on how to stop this war in a matter of days and come out looking like the better person for it, but I'm not certain he'd be willing to listen.

I do know people though, and how they react to things. My view of this is that the way the war was done on the avenue of attack that would actually WORK against the IWI was done so poorly as to make things worse.

This is an asymmetrical war, it's unlike any other that has happened in EVE prior to this point (at least that I have been able to research). The ship to ship combat is actually a side show to the real war that is the EVE player base perception of the two sides. If you compare the IWI CEO's letter (which is actually a tidy, smart bit of propaganda in and of itself) to the 'leaked' logs of the chat's within the Imperium's leadership, you can see the entire player base perception of the war in just two documents. The IWI appears to not be hiding anything, is open about their role and why they are in it. The Imperium leadership is coming across as well... you can read it clearly for yourself.

I'm not certain the Imperium's leadership is equipped with the tools to fight back on this avenue, thus, it looks like they "can't" fight back, but that's not true, it would just require something of them that is not easily reachable by those personalities.

I find it completely amazing that a 'game' like EVE has now reached an even new dimension of complexity. It now showcases how singular personalities can dominate a battlefield. History is rife with stories of these larger than life people in war, but to see it happen in a video game is... awesome.

I'm not certain any other MMO is capable of this dimension of play.

They aren't fighting against a third party application. They are fighting, in reality, against thousands upon thousands of players who used a gambling service that they enjoy. There is a way to fight against IWI, and that's to discourage the playerbase from using it in the first place.

Is that hard? Hell yes it is, but complaining about it is akin to grr goons. Don't complain about not being able to fight someone just because you haven't figured out how to do it successfully yet.

I see you're being as ridiculous as usual. IWI found a way to gain ISK from players by playing the social/politician side of EVE. You do realize that the game is about more than simply flying spaceships, right? Fight him the same way he earns isk, by playing the social, political side by use of propaganda. Don't resort to whining and cry about BSbreaches of the EULA because someone found a way to make ISK faster than the rest of us.

Ridiculous in what what? Yes, IWI found a way to gain isk from players using a third party application. That is undeniable. You can't claim that the IWI site is not a third party application nor can you deny that without that application he'd not have been able to get all of the isk. If he were sitting around in game saying "if you give me isk I'll pay to kill the goons" there's absolutely no way he'd make trillions, and you know that full well.

I love how you're calling me ridiculous then you're going off to deny basic facts about how he makes his isk. Further you're then going down the "the tears" route. I'm not whining or crying about the breaches of the EULA, I'm calmly, rationally and logically pointing out the very real breaches of the EULA that exists and questioning why CCP chooses to ignore it.