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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1501 - 2016-04-13 20:12:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Injectors?
Do not create time.

Quote:
Buying a character off the bazar?
Does not create time.

Quote:
Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something.
And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy — all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made.

…and that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work.


Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes. I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP. You can get SP through many different way. One of them is completely passive and granted by having an active skillqueue and a skill queued in that queue. The second one is to get your hands on SP injectors and using them on the character of your choice. The third one is to buy a character who has SP you want on it and using him for his SP in any way, shape or form you wish. Coming in the next update, you will have another way. It will be a new feature called opportunity and in it's first form, involve the requirement of killing a rat for a payment of 10k sp. This is repeatable 22 hours after the preceding completion.

Every single one of those game mechanic gives you SP. They enver gave you time. The only thing where time mattered was when you decided you wanted to get SP in the passive way. Guess what, you will still get every single one of those SP as long as you, of course, still fulfill the requirement of having an active queue and a skill in there too. Don't forget about those 2 because while you might not get punished for failing at having a queue active or a skill in there, you might feel you do. The other ones didn't involve any of your time. They possibly involved someone else's time but that is a non issue because you can't buy or trade time. Some people are doing research into it but as of right now, we only get 24 hours each day and that's it.

Time was never created in the game. On the other hand, SP has been created ever since someone queued his first skill. Whoever managed to pull that off, congratulation, you indeed were the first and no-one can ever take that from you. For everyone else, we just weren't the first but we still managed to get our fair share of SP out of the passive method. Over time, CCP decided they want to give us more options and they did. The bazaar was a somewhat efficient of getting SP at an accelerated rate but like anything else, it had it's limitation. SP injectors then came with their own set of limitation. Soon, opportunity will also offer SP with their own unique limitation.

You will still get your 24 hours of training each day unless :

1- You un-sub
2- You have no skill queued
3- The server on which our training is processed crash.
4- EVE effectively die. (You might still be on an active sub when this happen)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1502 - 2016-04-13 20:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes.

That's because this change hasn't gone through yet.

Quote:
I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP.
…and those SP are accumulated over time. In one day, you get 24h worth of them at the moment. With this idea, non-conformance means you only get 18–20h of them as punishment.

Quote:
You will still get your 24 hours of training
No. You still train 24 hours per day. But those 24 hours will only be worth 18–20 — that's all you get in a day unless you comply. Daily.

If you want to get the full 24h, you have to do what CCP wants you to do, when they want you to do it, rather than what you'd actually want to do when you want to do it.
Terhiss
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#1503 - 2016-04-13 20:24:59 UTC
Why I think you're shooting yourself in the foot:

it WILL become a daily chore like Guild wars 2 etc.

Why? Everybody wants more SP. If not for only the pure skillpoints, with the current skill extractors you're basically giving the vets 300k additional SP per month to convert in isk and flood the economy with.
If your intention is to inject more isk into the economy, cause inflation and bring skill injector prices down, go ahead, but it might also mean less subrsciptions paid with money and more isk-paid subscriptions, because more players will have more SP ready to convert in isk.

I think you should introduce diminished returns for higher SP accounts, if you do it.
Huckomi G'Noo
Sadistic Mika's Noodles
#1504 - 2016-04-13 20:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Huckomi G'Noo
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Injectors?
Do not create time.

Quote:
Buying a character off the bazar?
Does not create time.

Quote:
Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something.
And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy — all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made.

…and that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work.


Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes. I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP. You can get SP through many different way. One of them is completely passive and granted by having an active skillqueue and a skill queued in that queue. The second one is to get your hands on SP injectors and using them on the character of your choice. The third one is to buy a character who has SP you want on it and using him for his SP in any way, shape or form you wish. Coming in the next update, you will have another way. It will be a new feature called opportunity and in it's first form, involve the requirement of killing a rat for a payment of 10k sp. This is repeatable 22 hours after the preceding completion.

Every single one of those game mechanic gives you SP. They enver gave you time. The only thing where time mattered was when you decided you wanted to get SP in the passive way. Guess what, you will still get every single one of those SP as long as you, of course, still fulfill the requirement of having an active queue and a skill in there too. Don't forget about those 2 because while you might not get punished for failing at having a queue active or a skill in there, you might feel you do. The other ones didn't involve any of your time. They possibly involved someone else's time but that is a non issue because you can't buy or trade time. Some people are doing research into it but as of right now, we only get 24 hours each day and that's it.

Time was never created in the game. On the other hand, SP has been created ever since someone queued his first skill. Whoever managed to pull that off, congratulation, you indeed were the first and no-one can ever take that from you. For everyone else, we just weren't the first but we still managed to get our fair share of SP out of the passive method. Over time, CCP decided they want to give us more options and they did. The bazaar was a somewhat efficient of getting SP at an accelerated rate but like anything else, it had it's limitation. SP injectors then came with their own set of limitation. Soon, opportunity will also offer SP with their own unique limitation.

You will still get your 24 hours of training each day unless :

1- You un-sub
2- You have no skill queued
3- The server on which our training is processed crash.
4- EVE effectively die. (You might still be on an active sub when this happen)


....and now you will be able to get extra SP in that 24 hour subbed period - All you have to do is log in and jump through a hoop for those extra SP

Maybe later you will get less SP per day and the only way to get more is to jump though some more hoops

Eventually you may have no SP for being subbed for that 24 hours period but no problem as you will have lots and lots of Hoops to jump through to get your Skill Points

.... unless you buy boosts to make the hoops give you more SP

....and welcome to WOW
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1505 - 2016-04-13 20:30:51 UTC
Terhiss wrote:

it WILL become a daily chore like Guild wars 2 etc.

I liked that game. But dailies excacerbated burnout there just as they did in WoW and other mmo's.

Vet burnout is a real problem in eve. Owing to the ongoing war, we have many people logging in for the first time in years. Do we really want to accelerate their burnout?
S4m Cr0w
Duo d'un homme
La Division Bleue
#1506 - 2016-04-13 20:33:22 UTC
Me and my other 3 subbed accounts says NO.
I didn't chose to play to WoW, I chose EVE because anyone, casual or hardcore gamer, would advanced at the same rate. Wasn't really happy about injectors, really appalled by this shittyshitty idea.
Throw out whoever thought this be good for eve.

bad CCP, bad.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1507 - 2016-04-13 20:37:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes.

That's because this change hasn't gone through yet.

Quote:
I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP.
…and those SP are accumulated over time. In one day, you get 24h worth of them at the moment. With this idea, non-conformance means you only get 18–20h of them as punishment.

Quote:
You will still get your 24 hours of training
No. You still train 24 hours per day. But those 24 hours will only be worth 18–20 — that's all you get in a day unless you comply. Daily.

If you want to get the full 24h, you have to do what CCP wants you to do, when they want you to do it, rather than what you'd actually want to do when you want to do it.


Nope. You get 25 hours or training for having an active queu for 24 hours with a skill in there and you will still get 24 hours of SP for having a queu active for those 24 hours with a skill there. The passive earning of SP is not getting changed. If your idea of it is true, everyone is always punished for not capping their SP like IronBank did because it's available. It's even more punishing to those who can't because the market of injectors would dry up faster than people cap cap all characters.

This is of course completely false. Nobody got punished for IronBank PR stunt because we were still getting all we were supposed to get as long as we still met the requirement to get it. The opportunity will behave the same way. I will get all the SP I qualify for and not receive those I don't qualify for. I currently qualify for the passive one. Rich people sometime decide to qualify themselves for injectors and/or the bazaar way. That's their choice to take and they are not penalizing me for doing so. The opportunity will be the same. I will decide to either run it or not in which case, I will or won't get my due completely dependent to my willingness to qualify. If I choose not to kill a rat because I have something more fun to do with my life, then I will do something more fun with my life and just no earn other SP than the one I qualify for. If others get more SP than I do, then so be it. Many already do by purchasing characters, injectors or using implants. Why would I care more about those 10k SP when I don't care about the millions they jump to in mere hours? Because it's easier to get? If they make it harder, the very single thing they try to achieve with this bad idea is wasted so it absolutely has to be easy.

It's stupid but it's the only way that stupid feature will get them what they want.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#1508 - 2016-04-13 20:40:09 UTC
You know how that go, right? Gave myself all these little rules about what I wouldn't do. Like I told myself I'd do a lot of **** to get SP, but I swore I wouldn't ever trick.

So, after I'm tricking, I thought, "This ain't so bad. I'll do this for a while, except I'll make some more rules for myself, like I'm going to use condoms, and I'm never going to go with more than one guy at the same time".

Well, let's just say that there are some things that I told myself I would never do.

You know what my SP addiction did to my rules, right? Whatever it is you tell yourself you won't do to get level V's, you're pretty much making a list of everything you will do as soon as your inner SP addict tells you to.

I mean, that ***** wants to kill me. She does.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1509 - 2016-04-13 20:40:26 UTC
Huckomi G'Noo wrote:


....and now you will be able to get extra SP in that 24 hour subbed period - All you have to do is log in and jump through a hoop for those extra SP

Maybe later you will get less SP per day and the only way to get more is to jump though some more hoops

Eventually you may have no SP for being subbed for that 24 hours period but no problem as you will have lots and lots of Hoops to jump through to get your Skill Points

.... unless you buy boosts to make the hoops give you more SP

....and welcome to WOW


You can already get more as long as you are willing to jump through a different set of hoops for each of them.

Burn ISK on implants and put them in your head. Collect extra SP.

Remap correctly for your current skills. Collect extra SP.

Buy injectors off the market. Collect extra SP.

Buy character from the bazaar. Collect extra SP.
marclass
POS Party
Ember Sands
#1510 - 2016-04-13 20:42:09 UTC
**** dailies.

If this change goes live CCP will be punishing players whose play styles don't fit into some badly thought out notion of how CCP thinks Eve should be played.

Have a few long term scouts seeded into a WH? You can't move them to k space every day to run dailies without tipping off the locals you're there and blowing an entire eviction. Have a super? Now you have to log it in every day and risk it getting blown up or get punished. Have a life and can't log on every day? Live in a C5 and don't have reliable access to k space? Less SP for you!

CCP shouldn't be punishing players because they can't log in every day. **** off with dailes.
Erihn Sabrovich
#1511 - 2016-04-13 20:42:51 UTC
10k SP a day... an injector is 150k SP (for older users)... Which means that if you buy 2 injectors per month, you get the same amount of SP...

So, those who earn billions in trading or other can easily skip the dailies and use injectors for the same goal : buying some skill...

higher SP is not the goal, skills are... Skills to pilot new ships, to use new weapons, to be able to use either shield or armor, ... in other words, skills to unlock parts of the gameplay.

And as soon as you can buy PLEX for real life money, ISK for PLEX and Injectors for ISK... this means that you can say that you can already buy SP for real life money so SP are not worth so much anymore in game after all...



You don't want to do dailies ? nothing FORCES you to do them... someone talked about WoW... well, correct me if I'm wrong but WoW's dailies are about reputation which allow you to get some OPTIONNAL items... Since LK or Cata, Reputation as a key to access raids is no more present... Some do the rep grinds, other don't... it's all about CHOICE... choice to spend time to do one thing or to spend it doing something else...

If you're stupid enough to think that you have no choice but doing the dailies, it's time to think about getting a REAL LIFE and looking for a psychiatric institution !!! EVE is a GAME... a game is about spending some time enjoying it, not about recreating the everyday problems ingame... it's about disconnecting from your everyday stress while shooting some other player or NPC, while trading some merchandise on the market or emptying some asteroid belt, ... If you can't understand that, you're not an asset to the game but a liability !!!
Stormin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1512 - 2016-04-13 20:45:31 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel.

As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like.

You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available.

That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later!

Feedback appreciate as always,
CCP Rise for Team Size Matters

Responding to feedback



I look at this as a general SP increase per day/mo/yr for everyone in the game. Theoretically if everyone takes advantage the new system the gain is equal among all players. The end result being 3,650,000 SP more per year than we previously had.

In reality not everyone will be taking advantage the same though, some people are not able to log on every day. For this reason I think an account should store up more than one mission at a time. For example if you could have 7 total daily events saved up, it would be possible for someone who can only play over the weekend to still gain the same amount of SP as everyone else.

You might argue it doesn't need to be equal for everyone, ISK for example can be accumulated faster if you play more frequently. The difference here is that SP was essentially the same for everyone, with the exception of implants and min/maxing remaps everyone at a base level earns SP at the same rate. This change will make it so that is no longer the case.

Overall I like the idea of having more SP per year, this is in no way a bad thing. It's just important to have it balanced out for those who play casually vs every day.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1513 - 2016-04-13 20:51:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Nope. You get 25 24 hours or training for having an active queu for 24 hours with a skill in there and you will still get 24 hours of SP for having a queu active for those 24 hours with a skill there.
No.

Again: you train for 24 hours. This is not the same thing as getting 24h worth of training. With this change, your training for 24h will only get you 18–28h worth of training. To get the full 24 hours worth, you have to obey. If you don't, you get punished.

Quote:
I will get all the SP I qualify for and not receive those I don't qualify for.
In other words, by not conforming to CCP's demands on when and how to play, you are being punished by having your daily allotment of SP reduced to only 18–20 hours worth, as opposed to the full 24 hours. You lose time.

Quote:
It's stupid but it's the only way that stupid feature will get them what they want.
…except that they have already explicitly confirmed that it is not. It's stupid because CCP stupidly refuses to accept and admit that they did something stupid, so instead they double down and hope — stupidly — that one stupidity will cancel the other out. This, of course, is even more stupid than either stupidity in isolation, but that's CCP for you: better to be stupid at a geometric rate than to change your mind and admit fault.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1514 - 2016-04-13 20:52:59 UTC
Stormin wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel.

As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like.

You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available.

That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later!

Feedback appreciate as always,
CCP Rise for Team Size Matters

Responding to feedback



I look at this as a general SP increase per day/mo/yr for everyone in the game. Theoretically if everyone takes advantage the new system the gain is equal among all players. The end result being 3,650,000 SP more per year than we previously had.

In reality not everyone will be taking advantage the same though, some people are not able to log on every day. For this reason I think an account should store up more than one mission at a time. For example if you could have 7 total daily events saved up, it would be possible for someone who can only play over the weekend to still gain the same amount of SP as everyone else.

You might argue it doesn't need to be equal for everyone, ISK for example can be accumulated faster if you play more frequently. The difference here is that SP was essentially the same for everyone, with the exception of implants and min/maxing remaps everyone at a base level earns SP at the same rate. This change will make it so that is no longer the case.

Overall I like the idea of having more SP per year, this is in no way a bad thing. It's just important to have it balanced out for those who play casually vs every day.


i listed something similar to this after rise said it was to replace the old queue

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#1515 - 2016-04-13 20:54:38 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
The salt is real. It's funny though because after having read mos tof the complaints, absolutely none of them hold any water in the current implementation of Eve. Allow me to explain.

You have Joe, he has an alt account that he PLEXes. This account has 3 characters, two of them are Cyno Alts or Trading alts or [instert usefull alt here] so Joe is getting worth out of his PLEX. The 3rd character is not in fact used for anything other than gaining SP, extracting the SP and selling the injectors for isk. He more or less manages to fund this account by doing that. This SP also, by the way, 'appears out of thin air' more or less, requiring a plex to generate them.

Now you have Bob. Bob runs incursions/missions/null rats/[inster isk making activity here]. He uses that ISK that he grinds by spending time in game to buy Joe's skill injectors.

Now explain to me how SP that is being generated out of thin air (Requiring a Plex) and then being traded for isk is different to SP that is generated by killing an NPC ever 22h (requiring a paid account) are different form each other? Even if you switch out the SP reward form the dailies to ISK, how is it any different to buy SP (farmed with an SP alt) with that isk? It's not.

See, with SP extractors and injectors you can justify this feature. Those who advocate(d) for, or were indifferent to, Injectors but are now kicking up against daily SP opportunities unfortunately don't have any ground to stand on. It's that slippery slope people were talking about back when SP injectors were first talked about.

That said, I'm happy to sit back and see if this will grow eve, kill it, change the playerbase/demographic forever or have no real effect whatsoever. I just don't have any investment in the outcome at all and will happily enjoy the ride.


You clearly dont understand how injectors/extractors work. First off - no sp is being made out of thin air - someone has to train it. Second, extractors are not 100% efficient meaning that you lose sp everytime you use one. Thus injectors/extractors are a sp sink - which is sorely needed, due to the aging population of eve. On the other hand, dallies are a faucet - they just add sp to the game - which is a poor idea for anything other then newbees. Maybe newbees need a way to speed up training, but no one else does.

Now if you are complaining about people farming alts for sp - well so what? People already farmed alts to sell on the bazaar - its all one in the same because it is sp that is generated by real players - not some magic waving of the ccp fairy wand.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1516 - 2016-04-13 20:56:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:

And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy — all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made.

…and that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work.


That is an incorrect claim.

You are not loosing time, not in the literal sense. So that is a weird and wrong way to spin it. What is happening is you are not getting a bonus. Does it theoretically lead to the same effect as loosing time would, sure. But you are not loosing time... So stop saying it. It is factually wrong, our days are not getting shorter. What you want to say is that you are missing a bonus, equivalent to 6 hours reduction in training time pr day. that would be correct, loosing time not.

Is it a punishment, to miss the bonus? Well, for something to be an punishment, the affected person would have to feel punished. So it would differ from individual to individual, if the extra SP are important for them or not. Just because it is a punishment for you loose SP, it does not mean those of us anyway are training at suboptimal SP/hour with most of the skils we need trained, care and perceive it as punishment.

It is just like when you claim there is no such thing as a SP gap. Ofc. there is, it is even measurable in EFT, what a lack of SP means in DPS, tank and fitting ability. Does the SP gap have any pracical effect in game? no, you can compensate by being clever. But there still is a gap.

Tippia wrote:

all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made.


You are basing this on the assumption that you are objectively right, and that CCP agrees that this is a bad move. They clearly do not though based on the title of this post. So my point from my former post still stands: You will not get anything from demanding a roll back and calling them stupid... That is not how the human psyke works. They already decided that they think this is a good idea. Why would they listen to someone saying " throw it all away, because I say so"? You should also not forget, that you have been against most of the changes made in the last years, from freigther changes to SP trading. things that not turn out as bad as predicted. You have put yourself in a position, where nobody with anything to say will listen to you, like most of the EVE player base. have you noticed how they don't really ask the players anymore (see this thread)? It is due to people demanding rollbacks of everything from new ui to new maps etc. Nobody likes to be told to throw something away they think is a good idea on the basis of some random internet peoples opinion. What they want is constructive changes to the idea, so it would work better. Discarding the idea is not constructive. No matter how many hyperbole examples with hamers and bearing walls you can come up with. The truth is no one really knows if it will be good or bad (I know, I know.... the mighty Tippia knows everything), but for the rest of us only time will tell.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1517 - 2016-04-13 21:06:20 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Tippia wrote:

And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy — all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made.

…and that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work.


That is an incorrect claim.

You are not loosing time, not in the literal sense. So that is a weird and wrong way to spin it. What is happening is you are not getting a bonus. Does it theoretically lead to the same effect as loosing time would, sure.



well its a good thing effect is a hell of a lot more important than semantics

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rex Usurious
Indulgent Enterprises
#1518 - 2016-04-13 21:06:57 UTC
If the point is to get people to log in, just give the sp for logging in for more than 5 minutes or 10 minutes. Why should I have to find an npc to kill? That makes this a chore like most other 'daily' mmo 'content' rather than an incentive to log in.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1519 - 2016-04-13 21:09:28 UTC
Huckomi G'Noo wrote:
....and now you will be able to get extra SP in that 24 hour subbed period - All you have to do is log in and jump through a hoop for those extra SP

Maybe later you will get less SP per day and the only way to get more is to jump though some more hoops

Eventually you may have no SP for being subbed for that 24 hours period but no problem as you will have lots and lots of Hoops to jump through to get your Skill Points

.... unless you buy boosts to make the hoops give you more SP

....and welcome to WOW

This. It's CCP modus operandi with ship and modules balancing.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1520 - 2016-04-13 21:16:17 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Nobody likes to be told to throw something away they think is a good idea on the basis of some random internet peoples opinion. What they want is constructive changes to the idea, so it would work better. Discarding the idea is not constructive.

Not all ideas are constructive either, and not all ideas deserve to be negotiated around. Some things just don't have reasonable a middle-ground.

"Hey, I've been thinking about setting our car on fire"

"I'd rather you didn't, to be perfectly frank."

"How about just the back seat?"

"While certainly a less frightening prospect, that would not be a very good idea either."

"Aw come on man, meet me half way and come up with a decent counter-proposal or I'm arranging something pyrotechnical in the glove compartment."

"I'm calling the police."

I'm not saying this feature is the equivalent of setting a car on fire. For one thing it can be turned off if whatever metrics they intend to use don't tick upwards at a satisfactory rate. (Although I'm afraid that's not what would happen, instead CCP would reach the conclusion that the solution to this pesky screw problem is to use an even larger hammer.)