These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
wurstsalat
RedCounty
#1461 - 2016-04-13 18:10:21 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
I think that there are some serious problems in EVE which ends up as turn off for new players (I'm not speaking of the totally newbie which just joined but about the 6 month-1 year (or 2) old player)



The first one is the SP gap... Even if "older players" keep saying that SP don't matter... it's quite frustrating for new players... It can be felt as "why are we punished because we didn't discover this game earlier".

Nearly all MMO allow new player to catch-up... except EVE... This may seem OK for people who are 7-8 years old or more (in game) but it's quite a turn off to think that no matter what you do, you'll always stay behind.



The second one is the "powerblock" system... In every single competitive MMO (Web based like Travian/Planetarion/..., online like EVE, ... the powerblock simply stop most chances for new players to get a real impact... Try to think about this : how can a new alliance, not linked to any powerblock, may hope to compete with blocks like Goons and other ? You may say that you can simply ignore the blocks... Except that they grasps scarces ressources like Moons, take control of interresting WH space and so on... Next step may be with market control through citadels...



There are also some less known things like the T2 BPO which give insane market advantages to those who get them as they don't have to worry about research and reflect the costs on the T2 items prices...


You may look the situation in any angle, to counter the player leak, these points have to be taken care off...


It may look like no-go for some of you, but injectors and dailies help in that way... Yes, it'll change the SP=age rule... it **** off the older players who feel like they are "ripped"... like their SP superiority is being stripped from them... But keep in mind that removing that SP insanity IS NEEDED.


CCP should take care of the T2 BPO... they may convert them to BPC with a limited number of runs + the related T1 BPO... or they may simply remove them, it's not as if they haven't been rentabilized since they were given.


CCP should find way to shatter powerblocks... because these blocks do no good to the game... They pretend to "create content" but all what they do is doing some fights, making money, scaring new players and sitting on their strength... they don't create missions, new kind of ships/modules, new kind of exploration sites, ... They usually are not new players friendly (too many risks of them being spies)... But well, this phenomenon is not exclusive to EVE... it's common accross games...


CCP should take care of the new players, create more PvE missions, create more opportunities, ... with rewards that really do help them... Some mission arcs can be created for nearly all classes... a little like the tutorial missions but longer (15-20 missions for an arc) and real rewards...


CCP should really make mission rewards more valuable... Loot+Salvage (+bounties) are usually several times the mission reward in ISK which is quite pathetic... Giving away small amount of AUR (1-2 AUR for example) or SP could help.


You're all whining about that choice of CCP... don't forget one thing : IT'S THEIR GAME, you're only guests... So, please, be more polite to yourt hosts... If you go to some friend's home and don't like the paintings on the wall, you keep quiet about it... It's the same here...


For the 8-10 year old players, you won't die by not getting 7M SP a year by not doing the dailies while you already have about 200M SP which is 28 times more !!! If the dailies **** you off, you are NOT REQUIRED to do them... After all, you're the first to say that SP don't matter... and there are probably many of you who don't know what train next anyway...


You were proven wrong by many alliances, just to take the biggest example, BRAVE. Literally a 2 week old character or whatever who recruited all the newbies and said "Let's go" and they proceeded to play with the big guys. Now they are part of the war against the biggest former coalition. Don't tell people that newbeans can't make a difference, because that's simply lying, 200 people in thrashers which take like 1 week to train at most can do a lot of damage, and if you can maintain a standing fleet of 200 thrashers you can own sov easily and generate a lot of content for everyone.

None of what you say makes sense. Stop spouting bullshit. It's clear you don't know anything about this game.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#1462 - 2016-04-13 18:13:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?


You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.


That makes them, by definition, not daily any more.

A signature :o

Archange Rangee
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1463 - 2016-04-13 18:31:15 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?

No one actually likes playing MMOs, but that's how all the interesting new games come out now so we don't have much choice.

Coming from one of those players you all hate who logs in 3-5 times per year to update his skill queue. If I don't have anything worth training I'll hop around enough to pick up a few new books. If I've really got a bunch of time with nothing to do I might go mine a few rocks in noobspace.
I have considered buying Tiny Miner so I'd have enough ISK to buy some ships and try some other stuff, but that seems like a lot of hassle. So there you have it.

If you really want to make people log in and play you'll have to get rid of offline training. Yes, I said it. Deal with it.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1464 - 2016-04-13 18:31:20 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Right. At the end of the day this is a game. Not a job where people need an incentive to punch in every day. Treating it as the latter is bad. If fun for their customers isn't the goal, they should rethink their plan.


You are surely the type of player who think EA is doing it all wrong while they are swimming in pools of money. If the real goal was fun, nobody would be making a dime in the gaming industry as they would burn all the money into MOAR FUN!!!!

You keep the fun at an ok level and coast on it. This new feature does not add fun. Nothing about it is fun at all. What it adds is log-ins. Log-ins seems irrelevant but they are not. Rise said it in this very thread. Log-ins for non-direct gameplay reason generate un-intended gameplay event. You used to log for your skill queu every few days because you had less than 24 hours queued at that point and while there, you saw someone online to do something with or just did something because well, you are already in game so why not.

Technically, they could just revert the skillqueue change and get back those log-ins but the feature is really well liked. People are happy to be able to setup their plan and just forget about it so removing this is a hard sell for CCP. From that point on, you have to give players a reason to log in that is often enough to matter (if it's once a month, it's not worth the effort to develop) and relatively easy so chances are you will still have some "game will" to do something after it in game. If they make the task something meaningful that lakes some time, they have a higher risk of player doing it and quitting. 1st daily wins like in WoT are an example of that. A lot fo people would do their 1st win and stop playing because getting that first win could easily take over 15 mins. Adding to a skillqueue for example just took a few seconds.

The activity to get you online also has to be realtively easy in game term to make sure everyone can be the "log-in that will make stuff happen". If you ask people to scan a WH, you lost a good chunk of player because some can't scan anyway while shooting a rat is possible for at least 99% of the characters in game. (You technically might have a market alt with extracted weapon skill which would be unable to kill a frig rat but those are not likely to be numerous)

The reward need to be attractive. If you give nothing, the log-ins won't happen. Nobody will long-in just to log in. You can try many things but in EVE, there is one ultimate carrot. The carrot that makes people orange with envy. The one that people are the most likely to do what you ask of them for it. That carrot also has a few bonus attached to it. You are monetizing it in a way that even people with a metric ass ton of it will have a use for it while most other resources might not. This is why SP was chosen and not anything like LP which some people are too damn rich to care about, ISK for the same reason, special LP because people might not want to spacebarbie their character and aurum because this mean killing their own income. SP is valuable to everyone and does not destroy CCPs revenue like aurum would.

Now the first problem come but funnily enough, it's not a CCP problem but a playerbase problem. You see, the carrot that trumps them all really DOES trump them all at an insane level. Players are really going to go out of their way to get it. That carrot is way too tasty. It's a sugar coated candy stuffed with caramel served in a bowl of melted chocolate and the players are sugar deprived kids. We technically can all go down in our own way eating or apple ignoring the treat we can only obtain by juggling chainsaw while jumping through fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard but a lot of people just can't skip it. Hell they are willing to arrange of set of chainsaw with automatic gas refilling to make sure they get it the most often possible. This si technically all on them even if they will accuse CCP of making them do it. CCP never said "Thou shall juggle chainsaw while jumping fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard". All they are doing it saying "Hey guys, we're leaving to you everything you used to have but if you ever feel like doing and extra thing, we'll give you something for it".

This is what CCP is announcing right now. The choice will stay in each player's hand just like all the choice we don in game. The requirement for the reward is something more than likely just so we can't just crash the client as soon as it load so we can do it faster while still begin extremely short, easy and not really "gameable" like PvP kills would be.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1465 - 2016-04-13 18:34:57 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?


You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.


That makes them, by definition, not daily any more.


They were daily because each quest could only be ran one time per daily reset. You had a shitload of them available but the game would stop giving you anything after you did 25 IIRC. They were still task you could do every day but you had the choose the set you wanted to do. You had something like 50 options of which you could do 25. People totally wanted to be able to do all 50 and even more by returning to old "irrelevant" content. The argument here is "Why are you forcing me to do X?" (you are not forced but that still the argument pushed) On the other side, it was "Why won't you let me do more of those damn task each day?"
Eveline Vos
POS Party
Ember Sands
#1466 - 2016-04-13 18:35:57 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?


You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.


That makes them, by definition, not daily any more.


You could only do each quest/batch of quests once per day, but there were so many factions that had dailies that a character cap of 25 "Daily Quests" per day wasn't enough to do them all, and all of them had reputation/faction rewards that were too good to pass up.

It was awful.
Eveline Vos
POS Party
Ember Sands
#1467 - 2016-04-13 18:38:21 UTC
Archange Rangee wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?

No one actually likes playing MMOs, but that's how all the interesting new games come out now so we don't have much choice.

Coming from one of those players you all hate who logs in 3-5 times per year to update his skill queue. If I don't have anything worth training I'll hop around enough to pick up a few new books. If I've really got a bunch of time with nothing to do I might go mine a few rocks in noobspace.
I have considered buying Tiny Miner so I'd have enough ISK to buy some ships and try some other stuff, but that seems like a lot of hassle. So there you have it.

If you really want to make people log in and play you'll have to get rid of offline training. Yes, I said it. Deal with it.


No, you just don't actually like Eve online. You like the stories, or the universe or whatever, but you don't actually like the game.

The daily isn't really going to change any of that for you.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1468 - 2016-04-13 18:44:26 UTC
Eveline Vos wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?


You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.


That makes them, by definition, not daily any more.


You could only do each quest/batch of quests once per day, but there were so many factions that had dailies that a character cap of 25 "Daily Quests" per day wasn't enough to do them all, and all of them had reputation/faction rewards that were too good to pass up.

It was awful.


Nothing was required or too good to pass up. People feel like that but it's just not true. The real effectiveness of "exalted" requirement reward were always extremely small. The issue of "needing" it was always because people are not as good as they think they are and need those extra to clear content that can be done without it.
Invisusira
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#1469 - 2016-04-13 18:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Invisusira
EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ****. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS.

Dailies exemplify everything that EVE is not.

  • Play whenever you want! Thanks to the time-based skill system, there are no commitments! (oops, not anymore!)
  • Play however you want! PvE, PvP, Industry, Mining, In-station trading, it's all equally valuable! (oops, not anymore!)

EVE is a sandbox. Dailies do not belong here. **** off with this slippery slope garbage.
Pupinia Stewart
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#1470 - 2016-04-13 18:48:56 UTC
Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account.
Off to Elite: Dangerous!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1471 - 2016-04-13 18:58:51 UTC
Invisusira wrote:
EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ****. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS.

Dailies exemplify everything that EVE is not.

  • Play whenever you want! Thanks to the time-based skill system, there are no commitments! (oops, not anymore!)
  • Play however you want! PvE, PvP, Industry, Mining, In-station trading, it's all equally valuable! (oops, not anymore!)

EVE is a sandbox. Dailies do not belong here. **** off with this slippery slope garbage.


You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You just don't get the bonus for it unless you also fulfill the bonus requirement. They don't pay you overtime if you don't do the overtime.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#1472 - 2016-04-13 19:00:44 UTC
Eveline Vos wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?


You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.


That makes them, by definition, not daily any more.


You could only do each quest/batch of quests once per day, but there were so many factions that had dailies that a character cap of 25 "Daily Quests" per day wasn't enough to do them all, and all of them had reputation/faction rewards that were too good to pass up.

It was awful.

Ah, so that's how it works over there.

My last MMO (SWTOR) had dailies and weeklies. Most of the weeklies could be done with two batches of dailies and some small multiplayer quest. And it was once per character, so you could make alts and treat them like dailies for a little bit of efficiency. I poked at them halfheartedly and still burned out.
The most fun part of that game, for me, was the starfighter game. It was fast, kind of complicated, and they managed to make it so more than one class of ship was interesting to fly.
It had a daily and weekly quest attached to it. A lot of the players in matches would take those quests and not bother learning the game, which in turn reinforced bad habits from players who should know better. The ground PvP game had a similar mechanic and problem.

A signature :o

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1473 - 2016-04-13 19:01:39 UTC
Pupinia Stewart wrote:
Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account.
Off to Elite: Dangerous!

See you at Sag A* — don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. P

Frostys Virpio wrote:
You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You just…
…get penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses — you know full well that this is what they're doing.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1474 - 2016-04-13 19:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
Tippia wrote:
Pupinia Stewart wrote:
Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account.
Off to Elite: Dangerous!

See you at Sag A* — don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. P

Frostys Virpio wrote:
You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You just…
…get penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses — you know full well that this is what they're doing.


The fact that a bunch of entitled babies can't see that they have a choice and instead feel forced to do something is not a pathetic excuse. I would not introduce something like that but I also understand that there are no penalty involved. Your sub does not entitle you to all the possible SP anymore. Some of it will have be be "earned" in a stupid way. That's all there is to it. If you feel forced to do it, seek help because the issue is in your head.
JonnyPew
Doomheim
#1475 - 2016-04-13 19:06:33 UTC
This morning on Singularity it was called "Daily Opportunities", but now it's called "Recurring Opportunities".

How amusing.

EVE Online video content creator

http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#1476 - 2016-04-13 19:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Invisusira wrote:
EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ****. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS.

Dailies exemplify everything that EVE is not.

  • Play whenever you want! Thanks to the time-based skill system, there are no commitments! (oops, not anymore!)
  • Play however you want! PvE, PvP, Industry, Mining, In-station trading, it's all equally valuable! (oops, not anymore!)

EVE is a sandbox. Dailies do not belong here. **** off with this slippery slope garbage.

What is even more stupid is that this is coming at a time when players are re-subbing to fight in the war and player activity is at a peak; and now these daily activities are going to incentivise players to stop fighting each other and to go and shoot rats.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1477 - 2016-04-13 19:07:19 UTC
JonnyPew wrote:
This morning on Singularity it was called "Daily Opportunities", but now it's called "Recurring Opportunities".

How amusing.


If it keeps the 22 hours cycle, it's not daily...
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#1478 - 2016-04-13 19:12:16 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Pupinia Stewart wrote:
Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account.
Off to Elite: Dangerous!

See you at Sag A* — don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. P

Frostys Virpio wrote:
You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You just…
…get penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses — you know full well that this is what they're doing.


The fact that a bunch of entitled babies can't see that they have a choice and instead feel forced to do something is not a pathetic excuse. I would not introduce something like that but I also understand that there are no penalty involved. Your sub does not entitle you to all the possible SP anymore. Some of it will have be be "earned" in a stupid way. That's all there is to it. If you feel forced to do it, seek help because the issue is in your head.


So the motivation here is to give everyone extra sp for no reason, not artificially force people to login and do X even if they weren't planning to, right?

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Lugh Crow-Slave
#1479 - 2016-04-13 19:14:42 UTC
Eveline Vos wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Rise: You do know that no one actually likes doing dailies in those other mmo's, right?

Right?


You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.


No, the daily cap was asked to be removed because Blizzard wasn't going to remove dailies, and you literally needed to do more dailies in one day that the daily cap allowed due to the OUTRAGEOUS quantity of dailies added in Mists of Pandaria.

PS- Nobody liked spending 2-4 hours a day/per character to get the "way too good to ignore" rewards so that they could keep up with raid progression.


Exactly what we want to prevent from happening in eve
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1480 - 2016-04-13 19:14:51 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox..

Regardless of if the PCU issue is true, 5 minutes of login is not going to significantly add to the concurrent PCU which is the count that players get to see. It may affect the unique logins per day but that is a hidden statistic that only CCP can see how many Players, and Players is the important statistic not accounts, are logged in per day.
Daily kill one NPC quests do not add content to the game in a significant manner, and they do not add significant engagement for the player. And they go directly against the 'EVE doesn't have an SP grind' selling point, not to mention making fools of everyone who claimed that Sp injectors were not the start of a slippery slope, because this right here is the next part of the slippery slope mere months later.


Not to mention weer know ccp was blatantly dishonest with us when they said training would be the only way to get sp fir the injector because this was in the works when they posted that

So at the very least we know they don't respect is enough to tell us the truth

Tinfoil hat EDIT
Also this is kinda big yet there is not even a hint that a dev blog will be put out anytime soon. It's almost like ccp doesn't want to be called out for sneaking thus in but they also don't want the majority of eve to know about it yet

I'm pretty sure, CCP Rise didn't know about this plans when he posted his devblog. This is different than the originally announced tribute system. Now he looks like an idiot, 50% because of this business decision and 50% because his team didn't come up with a better idea to increase PCU.

But I agree, hiding unpopular announcements in long threads or on reddit is a thing recently ... where is the devblog about the upcoming NPC trading fee increase and the "PvP tax"?

I'm my own NPC alt.