Intergalactic Summit

Now you are calling the scope propaganda? The very news sources you linked damn your point of view. Midular's government was not the one that started negotiations with the Nefantir, the Republic had been speaking with them from rebellion. Are you to credit her with that next? In one breath you blame Shakor alone for the Purge and deny him the credit for his involvement in the One Day War. Which is it Elsebeth, was he complicit in it or was he not? Was he working with the Elders and them for him or was he not? Make up your mind.

Since he has become SanMatar the Tribes have been united, we have a new government. Or did he not propose all of that years ago now too? Your memory seems highly selective so I cannot be sure what your version of history will produce. Crime has reduced drastically, the fleet is more modern, social programs are more robust and widespread, infrastructure in the Republic is ubiquitously better, corruption is universally down after the purge... All of this can be accredited to the New Tribal Order. The one Shakor pushed from the day he became SanMatar. But I suppose he also does not rule the Empire with the power to free all the slaves so he falls short in your eyes?

The Tribes are now equal members in the government written by them and it is thanks to the Chiefs and the Sanmatar.

Midular had a hand in it before she was killed in the Federation if you remember. She supported Shakor as SanMatar and in creating the New Tribal Order as did the other Chiefs. The whole Republic supported him and named him SanMatar following the legal process of the time and only you and handful of Sebiestor Supremacists still contest that.

Seven Tribes and Seven Chiefs recognize him as the SanMatar, Including your own Chief. Kin of the Ray Of Matar you claim he had killed to fill some purpose you have yet to actually define. And you believe she is blind and stupid unaware of your vast conspiracy? Or are you simply not thinking of the universal and ubiquitous support the SanMatar has from the Chiefs, the ones who rule the Republic. You call dissolving a government that disagrees with you "legal" but call an election with the support of the Chiefs and the people "illegal?"



Your Chief, all the Seven Tribes, trillions of Matari, CONCORD, The Empire, The Federation, and the State al recognize him as legal and rightful SanMatar. Time to look to your Chief and follow your Oath. Abandon these idiotic conspiracies and accept them as misplaced emotion from your grief over the death of the Ray Of Matar. For your sake.

It did not take long for this to devolve into the "who has free'd more slaves" part of the argument. It is almost tradition at this point to compare factional warfare service records once an argument has been lost, I just expected it from a factional warfare pilot.

I of course defer to you, having made a full and objective accounting of Elsebeth's entire lifetime of service as well as mine and not just reading an alliance ticker and making an assumption. Since you did not just read my alliance ticker and instead read what I said I have no need to remind you:



Now tell me where I live Nick. Then tell me how that effects the truth of what I have said.

Or is this thread now "who freed more slaves and killed Nauplius more times?" If so then I am more than happy to leave it to Diana Kim and the others who typically come out of the woodwork by now.

Here's the thing.

Hundreds of people were executed by a huge organisation of unknown agents, for apparently being traitors, paid by the Amarr secret service.

Seemingly, evidence of them being paid by the Amarr secret service was left at the scene of each murder.

So. Some organisation exists, with knowledge of who the Amarr secret services were paying off. And they knew where those people would be. And they just waltzed in and murdered them, and left the evidence, and waltzed right back out.

Now then... which agency is it, that has the absolute best evidence of who is in the pay of the Amarr secret service ?

Is it the RSS ? The FIO ?

No.

Turns out, unsurprisingly, that the agency that knows best who is being paid by the Amarr secret service, is in fact, the Amarr secret service.

So, it never crossed anyone's mind, that perhaps this might be some kind of cover-up by the Amarr secret service ?

That upon the news of the Elder invasion, the Amarr secret service ordered their handlers in Minmatar space to "Execute Plan B", to terminate the existing informants, so that they could be replaced by new, less obvious ones, because the existing ones would face far too much scrutiny as the Republic prepared for an Imperial counter-attack ?

No. Clearly that is a conspiracy theory.

Everything is fine. The Elders protect. Trust in the Elders. Obey the Elders. Do not question the Elders. Comply. Obey. Accept.

And then Shakor becomes the head of state for the Republic. A man who by his own admission, was abducted by Jovians and came back a changed person.

Obey. Accept. Comply.

Amarr. Ammatars. Gallente. Jovians. Elders. Angel Cartel. Is there no end to the number of of groups that seek to shape the Minmatar people into what they wish them to be ? Must we be forever nothing more than a pawn in someone else's game ?

And the act of removing her from power was done legally through those same laws. The vote that followed for the new prime minister was done legally through those same laws. What is your argument here?


As for weak harping and idiotic conspiracy involving the Purge. Show me a single shred of evidence that anyone killed that day was done so wrongly. That they were not weakening the Republic with their vampiric drain of resources and information to the Empire, the Federation, or the Cartel. They were corrupt and all deserved what they got. Show me any evidence an innocent man or woman was left cooling with a datapad of manufactured crimes.

That is Tribal justice and you are all right to fear it just as those who would be corrupt today fear it. If you want trials and law advocates who can weasel the guilty free then go to the Federation.



She was also weak and unpopular, frequently going against the wishes of her people. It was the love the Matari had for their Ray of Matar that strung the Republic out to its state before the One Day War. Had she not been Ray of Matar then her reputation as a peacemaker would have never been repeated. That same love is what bore the massacre of Colelie.

So perhaps things would have been less ugly had she been less beloved in her time.

Yes.
Unless he got an order to kill and was ready to die himself to execute this order.

Well, maybe there should be some kind of investigation, to establish the facts, eh ?

I wonder what you could call such a thing.

Obviously not a trial though.

Because the Tribes "don't do trials".

It is not tribal to kill a person, and then accuse him of something, and if someone objects, ask them for proof that he was innocent and did not need to be killed. That is like an Amarrian way to treat slaves, not the way civilized people treat their kin. Tribal justice would be to give your kin the benefit of doubt until they are proven guilty, to let their clan speak for and with them before the sentence, and to let them handle carrying it out if that is their custom.

I was a member of the Tribes last I checked, and those murders were certainly not done in my name.

Of course, this is an era where all sorts of barbaric superstitions are celebrated as "tribal revival", and "Tribal" has started to mean "agreeing with The Leader". So figures.

You have no idea how trials for justice work, do you?

Something took our government, for sure, in one night of rebellion. Something that thinks that a stronger person who can present words in their favor should have the right to kill a wrongdoer without their clan having the chance to present evidence in the contrary.

So be it; I will go back to my silence.

May your ancestors open your ears - and those of our leaders - so that one day you hear more than mewing when members of the Tribes ask for justice.

It's not just that. It's not just the idea of having some form of legal process (a crime occurs, you talk to the holder of the Laws, who'll listen to the evidence, and decide what if any action should be taken).


In order for this "Purge" to be true then, the following have to be true:

1. That one foreign agency controlled a significant amount of Minmatar politicians.

2. That a second foreign agency, whose identity and agenda are unknown, was able to conduct the operation.

3. That the RSS and local police forces were so incompetent that they didn't know about points 1 and 2.


So. If point 1 is true, then, you have to question things.

If we are to believe point 1, then, you have to ask these questions:

A. Given that the Amarr secret service effectively controlled the Republic... why did the Republic even exist ? Why hadn't the Amarr conquered it long before now ? Surely that would have been simple ?

B. Given the alleged supremacy of Amarr-controlled politicians... How did Chief Karin Midular, or Maleatu Shakor, ever attain political office in the first place ? Instead of being sidelined or eliminated long before establishing a political career ?

If point 2 is true, then you also have to question things.

C. Given that the real identity and real agenda of those agents was and is unknown, then, you must ask. In whose name did they commit these actions ? By what right do they exercise that power ?

D. The existence of an outside foreign agency, that claims the right to intervene in Minmatar affairs, is by its very existence, a threat to the self-determination of the Minmatar peoples. As long as such an organisation exists, cloaked in shadow, then is it not the case that the Tribes are not allowed to determine their own affairs ? Is it not the case that our Clan and Tribe leaders are threatened with murder, should they not conform to this foreign agency's agenda ?

If point 3 is true, then you also must ask.

E. Given this level of incompetence amongst the security forces who are supposed to protect the people, can they be trusted to protect the people against other threats ? Such as the Angel Cartel ?

F. Have the RSS and local police forces magically become more competent since ?


And, if it was all true, then, it means that the systems of government couldn't be trusted in the past.

So, we should not trust them in future, should we ? We should not allow them to act without questioning every action, and demanding a satisfactory explanation, should we ?

But only the Amarr secret service was mentioned. None of those others were.