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Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#921 - 2016-04-11 04:28:38 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:

I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks.



lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in?

you don't have to do anything. It's not your primary source of SP, it's an incentive.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#922 - 2016-04-11 04:50:24 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:

I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks.



lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in?

you don't have to do anything. It's not your primary source of SP, it's an incentive.


It's a punishment for not playing.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#923 - 2016-04-11 05:06:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It's a punishment for not playing.


I think you mean not playing or not playing the way CCP decides you should. Hell, even people who spend most of their time doing metagaming without undocking can be valuable players.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#924 - 2016-04-11 05:38:32 UTC
Better yet, make the activity randomized instead of uniform for everyone each day.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#925 - 2016-04-11 06:02:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:

I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks.



lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in?

you don't have to do anything. It's not your primary source of SP, it's an incentive.


It's a punishment for not playing.


punishment is listening to the same old tired punishment argument

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#926 - 2016-04-11 06:04:13 UTC
Everyone's fixated on the 10k SP for shooting a rat-numbers, the tedium of a stupid daily.
This is one of the things they would have to do to make F2P EVE. If they add more do-this-for-SP tasks, it will become a functional alternative to queueing up skills.

The next logical steps are ye olde XP "boosters" and making subscription optional.

A signature :o
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#927 - 2016-04-11 06:42:43 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
please count highsec miners as npcs as there are no meaningful differences between the two



The NPCs have better AI.



On a serious note: This is a BAD idea.

Like daily quests in WOW, It's a big 'get f***ed' to players that work and can't log in every day.

It's one thing if there is a clear limit. "This bonus is available 50 times per character ever". Then you'll get the benefits over time - in 50 days if you log on frequently, over six months if you do not.

It's totally different if it is without limit and just becomes a morning chore. Log in, undock the interceptor, warp to a belt, kill one rat, dock up, log to alt, repeat.

"Want to come on a PVP fleet?"

"Sorry can't, got to take the 6 alts out to kill a rat each"


This bad idea belongs in the dustbin.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Lugh Crow-Slave
#928 - 2016-04-11 06:47:27 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Everyone's fixated on the 10k SP for shooting a rat-numbers, the tedium of a stupid daily.
This is one of the things they would have to do to make F2P EVE. If they add more do-this-for-SP tasks, it will become a functional alternative to queueing up skills.

The next logical steps are ye olde XP "boosters" and making subscription optional.


... we don't want a f2p eve

f2p is what happens to a subscription mmo on its last legs


and the one rat for 10ksp is not what we are stuck on

what we are stuck on is ccp telling us how to play

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Luscius Uta
#929 - 2016-04-11 07:08:32 UTC
If this happened few years ago, I would be excited about it. But nowadays I rarely shoot NPCs and most of my income comes from station trading and T2 manufacturing on my alt. I don't mind the game giving bonus SP to active players, but I mind when a supposedly sandbox game tells them what they should do to receive those SP. Either make sure that different ingame activities are rewarded or don't introduce this at all.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Valia Fournier
Involuntary Reactions
#930 - 2016-04-11 07:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Valia Fournier
So to sum up:


  1. It breaks the sandbox by telling players what to do and when they must do it
  2. Breaks the "No grind for XP (skills)" core dynamic eve has. While one ship is not a grind, it's the principal.
  3. Opens Pandora's box to additional "grind for xp (skills)" implementations in the future
  4. Punishes players who can't log on or aren't motivated to do X activity
  5. Copycats other games instead of adding a new creative game mechanic
  6. Treats the symptom of people not logging in rather than curing the disease (lack of group gameplay / meaningful objectives)
  7. Devalues activities not included in this system (logistics/marketing/corp management/whatever)
  8. Causes player burnout and is more likely to cause people not logging in to cancel subs sooner rather than later.


This is not a problem of CCP trying to give players additional ways to add skillpoints (although that would devalue them), it is the method of implementation of Dailies/etc.

There are other solutions to the newbro problem: higher starting skill point total, faster training for first 6 months, SP reward for completing opportunities and career agents, SP loot drops/LP store purchases that can be traded by players.
Red zeon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#931 - 2016-04-11 07:25:24 UTC
PLEACE CCP! NO!
I have 4acc, and i dont feel like undocking and go shooting a npc wich i will feel i would have to. making eve more of a chore.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#932 - 2016-04-11 07:31:38 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
After thinking about this a couple days, I think I can give some feedback.

This should diminish over time, perhaps at the same rate that skill injectors' effectiveness does. I would also be all for having the cooldown timer apply per account, rather than letting every single character slot on every single account do this every day.

Here's my justification:

If it takes you 2 minutes to log in, find and kill an NPC, and log out, that's circa 200 million ISK per hour of returns you're getting during those 2 minutes. If you have 2 or 3 accounts, you are strongly incentivized to doing this every single day on all 6, 9... 12? characters. That's the natural course to take when min-maxing, and it's not fun gameplay. It just isn't. How could it be? It's mostly logging in and out and warping, and it's about as boring as gameplay can possibly get outside of watching ice miners cycle.

Now, I'm not totally against this idea. It's fantastic for new players: that's like three hours of training time a day ez. It's also good for older players: having other slots on your accounts, you can give them that bonus sp and dump that sp into basic skills like industrials, scanning, trade, touchplanet, etc. But being strongly incentivized to do this on every single character on your account, every day, from the very beginning, is gonna grow old pretty darn fast.


Except CCP isn't thinking of game balance they are just wanting the number of accounts logging in every day to go up

The difference between you and me is I'm actually attempting to provide constructive feedback.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Lugh Crow-Slave
#933 - 2016-04-11 07:42:39 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
If this happened few years ago, I would be excited about it. But nowadays I rarely shoot NPCs and most of my income comes from station trading and T2 manufacturing on my alt. I don't mind the game giving bonus SP to active players, but I mind when a supposedly sandbox game tells them what they should do to receive those SP. Either make sure that different ingame activities are rewarded or don't introduce this at all.


so your okay with ccp telling people how to play and how often just so long as it fits what you do. as has been stated b4 just because you are not logged in does not mean you are not actively playing the game

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#934 - 2016-04-11 08:00:58 UTC
With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games.

However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward.

.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#935 - 2016-04-11 08:05:43 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games.

However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward.


but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#936 - 2016-04-11 08:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
yeah lets force newbies into low and null to get 10k sp, thats fine me and my friends will shoot them while we are gatecamping then watch them rage on the forums at ccp for forcing them to death for sp

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
kuner kunelebe
X-Zest Voyage
X - Z E S T
#937 - 2016-04-11 08:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: kuner kunelebe
first of all sorry for my bad eng but i can't say keep silence.

So i thing daily missions in eve is a bad idea, but a daily missions in that 0.1 alfa desing is worst ever that's why :
In WoW or other korean like games daily mission designed for limited content , for example when u reached max lvl u start grinding daily missions to get all of some set ( tier1 pve set or tier 5 pvp set, dosnt no matter ) when u reached it u stop to make daily , but potential sp capability in EVE is unreacheble, so in case of than game desing u will gain worst ever compulsion to make the same thing day-to-day week-to-week year-to-year Shocked
But u want change something ? so i have an great idea:
Lets make some ded-space places which one is needed to be scanned first which gives 10 kk sp for some mission ( for a choise of capsuler) scanning mission/transport mission/caribear mission . while capsuler make it he gains 10 k sp. that must be only in highsec (for newbies only).

BUT

Lets move all the 4 lvl agent from hisec to low sec, lets delete sansha incursions from high sec. lets divide twice all the highsec asteroid belt capabilities.

Compare to dev-blog topic that kind of game desing have many aadvantages :

- Content for a newbie pilot which allow them to grow up faster.
- Daily missions to newbies like in other MMORPG , they must like for first time
- Moving npc-like players ( hisec miners , static 4 lvl runners ) to explore new space, and try new content.
- We will get noob friendly hisec's which gives chance to newbies to gain SP quickly but gives no chance to live in hisec forever

IMHO old players dont need daily missions, they have what to do here , but for newbies it can be good.
IMHO no one of oler players will go to hisec for scanning that conent coz 10 k SP is not enough price for such movings , if someone be so greedy to go and steal that content from newbies it will generate additional traffic in border zones, which will rise up pvp activity.

that must be scanned sites or dedspace places to showing for new players that capsulers in eve must compete for resourses,territory, etc .
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#938 - 2016-04-11 08:16:55 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games.

However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward.


but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem

Maybe, but killing a single NPC is generic enough to accomodate most playstyles.

-You want to mine? There are rats in belts, just kill one with your drones.
-Missions, anomalies, belt ratting? Well, you kill rats anyway.
-PvP? No big deal to find some rat while you're hunting to 'prove' your activity and get the reward.
-Market? Or manufacturing/industry? Ok, you're out of luck :p But most likely you sit in Jita/hisec and it takes 2 minutes to undock, kill some weak rat in a belt and then go back to business.

Of course it will be easy to get the reward without actually doing anything meaningful. But I guess the idea is that if you already baited a player into logging in and shoot a rat, there is always a chance that he will stay a little longer and do something meaningful, providing content for everyone. Thinking about myself this may well work, many days I kinda plan to play EVE but I'm too lazy to actually log in... but if I'm baited by a corp ping or now this new feature, there is a good chance I will stay and play for several hours.

.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#939 - 2016-04-11 08:23:48 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing, I think it makes sense to start rewarding activity in this way, even if it obviously is a step closer to WoW-like grinding games.

However, maybe it would be better to not give the reward for just any NPC... as proposed, it will be enough to warp into a hisec belt and shoot a 10k rat, which takes 2 minutes and poses zero risk. How about the reward is only triggered if the NPC was killed in low or null sec? Or only half the reward for hisec. This way new players are encouraged to leave hisec earlier and players in general have to take a minimum of risk for the reward.


but that is still forcing ppl into one type of game play its not getting new players sp that is the problem. its telling players how to play that is the problem

Maybe, but killing a single NPC is generic enough to accomodate most playstyles.

-You want to mine? There are rats in belts, just kill one with your drones.
-Missions, anomalies, belt ratting? Well, you kill rats anyway.
-PvP? No big deal to find some rat while you're hunting to 'prove' your activity and get the reward.
-Market? Or manufacturing/industry? Ok, you're out of luck :p But most likely you sit in Jita/hisec and it takes 2 minutes to undock, kill some weak rat in a belt and then go back to business.

Of course it will be easy to get the reward without actually doing anything meaningful. But I guess the idea is that if you already baited a player into logging in and shoot a rat, there is always a chance that he will stay a little longer and do something meaningful, providing content for everyone. Thinking about myself this may well work, many days I kinda plan to play EVE but I'm too lazy to actually log in... but if I'm baited by a corp ping or now this new feature, there is a good chance I will stay and play for several hours.


The best way to get people playing is to have content. The current war has done more to boost numbers logging in than anything else. Forcing people to log in to shoot a rat will do nothing to boost the number of people logged in as they will be logged back off within 5 min.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#940 - 2016-04-11 08:40:18 UTC
[quote=Terrorfrodo]With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing,.../quote]

...and everyone I know will have stopped reading here!

I cannot hear it anymore! Make it stop.


The only difference between a noob and us is that we shaped the world, the fittings, the tactics and how to not be stoopitt guides for them to do the things we did by trial and error.

I wish them all to succumb in very slow agony by whatever virus is currently rating top 10.


You want new people? Tell them the right stuff and advertise the right stuff, not fly titan on day one.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever