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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#421 - 2016-04-09 02:06:08 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
Hehe this is going great ccp making eve in casual farming mmorpg. I know what you`re doing ccp. And thats nothing good. Making the game more arcade then making it simple. Then nerf the hardcore stuff. Add game shop. Selling (boosting packs and currency). Then add daily`s? whats next quest system you need to do to get some (epic item load?)

Good job. A new world of warcraft its more eve of spacecraft....

Also if you`re on this track of gaming. Why not add (epic crates) and you need to spend keys to open it And to get keys you need to use real money. CCP really every mmorpg facebook game have this add this to people love to gamble and so.

Also add some Increase real time SP booster packs. Like +20 for 2 days or so. People love to spend money on those things.

Yeah lets kill eve right now.


It actually has made me regret having paid for my 12 month sub already.


The one good thing about the timing of this announcement is that it is BEFORE I resubscribed all my accounts for the year. I'm not saying I am going to quit, but I was debating whether to resubscribe all of my accounts. I think this may be a good time to trim down to a more manageable number of accounts. The prospect of doing daily quests on 21 characters is enough to make me want to gouge my eyes out.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Cajun Waffles
Foggy Dew
#422 - 2016-04-09 02:06:22 UTC
Elinara Yamamoto wrote:
Cajun Waffles wrote:
So for some reason having more Skill Points would make flying in space less meaningful to you lol? I find that interesting.... Could you explain please? When content is what we create by building and blowing things up in space but you feel skill points is somehow a direct correlation to content and meaningfulness... May I ask what content that is?


To create these skillpoints you will have to do forced tasks that do not correlate to what you would normally be doing. Which means you get FOMO if you do not do them (some of us do) and if you do get these extra SPs, you will do less of what you want to do.

Like creating content. Like PvP pewpews which many of us agree are plenty fun.

Direct correlation between SP and content, and less meaningfulness by these extra SP, did I explain that to your contentment?


No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. Doing less of what you want to do? Again killing one NPC or whatever the daily may be is optional. Don't do it. It creates content for this that wish to do it. Just like content people do to purchase skill injectors.
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#423 - 2016-04-09 02:14:16 UTC
Cajun Waffles wrote:
Elinara Yamamoto wrote:
Cajun Waffles wrote:
So for some reason having more Skill Points would make flying in space less meaningful to you lol? I find that interesting.... Could you explain please? When content is what we create by building and blowing things up in space but you feel skill points is somehow a direct correlation to content and meaningfulness... May I ask what content that is?


To create these skillpoints you will have to do forced tasks that do not correlate to what you would normally be doing. Which means you get FOMO if you do not do them (some of us do) and if you do get these extra SPs, you will do less of what you want to do.

Like creating content. Like PvP pewpews which many of us agree are plenty fun.

Direct correlation between SP and content, and less meaningfulness by these extra SP, did I explain that to your contentment?


No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. Doing less of what you want to do? Again killing one NPC or whatever the daily may be is optional. Don't do it. It creates content for this that wish to do it. Just like content people do to purchase skill injectors.

While no, technically you're not forced to do anything, there is a very strong sense of missing out on the reward if you don't do it. In that regard, many people *will* feel forced to do the dailies in order to get their SP.

Deny it all you want, but people will feel forced, even though they're not actually being forced.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#424 - 2016-04-09 02:16:09 UTC
Relevant.
It's the Skinner Box monster again in its most obvious and annoying form, but it's not the first time it's reared its head in this game.

Even the mission grind is interesting and engaging than this thing.

A signature :o
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#425 - 2016-04-09 02:16:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cajun Waffles wrote:
No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate. Doing less of what you want to do? Again killing one NPC or whatever the daily may be is optional. Don't do it. It creates content for this that wish to do it. Just like content people do to purchase skill injectors.

It does not create any content. All it does is penalise some people for not doing engaging in the most sub-par (pre-existing) content the game has on offer.

You are forced because you are faced with a choice between being stupid and being bored. One is significantly suboptimal (no, having your “training day” be 24 hours long rather than 20 is not a small difference, and that's the best case scenario — for some, it'll be 24 hours compared to 18h); the other requires you to do something you do not want to do. It's the same nonsense as with the training skills — you were not “forced” to get those either; it was “only” very very very stupid not to, and the argument that you had an option was as ignorant then as it is now. In the end, being forced to train them was a huge part of why they had to go.

An option to make a dumb choice is not an option — it's a pathetic excuse for incompetent design, doubly so when this non-option doesn't improve the actual game in any way.

Jenn aSide wrote:
So while I won't be standing on any chairs cheering about this, it could have been worse (it cold have been millions of isk instead of 10k sp) so I can say I'm ok with it.


If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#426 - 2016-04-09 02:19:17 UTC
I saw this in an old South Park episode, "Make Love, Not Warcraft". I remermber Cartman had a similar plan about grinding 2 XP per boar.

Perhaps, CCP Rise has now become CCP Cartman? lol :D
Ruby Gnollo
#427 - 2016-04-09 02:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruby Gnollo
Kara Burnett wrote:
Please no daily quests. Or daily login rewards or whatever daily mechanic you can steal from generic mmos.

A beauty of EvE always was that it lacked those silly little tricks trying to force you to log in or do menial tasks you don't care about. Don't throw that away.


I really love that unique concept : the game where people not playing it have no disavantage against those who do play it.

Hoooo, please CCP, do not reward people flying ships instead of not playing the game as it's always been designed not te be played, including :

- Stacking scammers in Jita
- Stacking industrial & market alts to manipulate prices
- Running afk alts to help gank Evil Newbies Schemes in HS
- Playing forever logged off caps alts
- Playing as many alts as your billion ISKs worth of PLEXes allows you to handle

Please CCP, forget about the whole flying spaceships concept : please let Eve be a place of evil scamming politicians like in real life for those failed there who wouldn't even find a place in a coffee shop otherwise. Please, CCP, shall New Eden never be a game meant to be played, just to be talked about.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#428 - 2016-04-09 02:33:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[quote=Cajun Waffles]No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate.

If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with.


Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do.

But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential.
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#429 - 2016-04-09 02:37:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
[quote=Cajun Waffles]No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate.

If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with.


Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do.

But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential.

The gain is not small or inconsequential.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#430 - 2016-04-09 02:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jenn aSide wrote:
Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do.

But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential.

Again, it turns a 24-hour training day into 20 hours at the top end; into 18 hours at the low end. A potential 30% increase in training speed is not an inconsequential gain.

If they want to speed up people's acquisition of skills, then they can do that. That is not a sufficient or sane reason to do it retardedly. But of course, that's not the intent behind this idiocy, and penalising players that much for not making CCP's stats look good is an absolutely horrid and pathetically desperate design no matter what.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#431 - 2016-04-09 02:40:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
[quote=Cajun Waffles]No I'm sorry I still disagree. Basically you are stating you are "forced" which is inaccurate.

If the positive side is that it could have been worse, then it's not something you should ever be ok with.


Yet I am ok with it. No one is more skeptical of these kinds of changes than I am (not even you), no one hates the idea of EVe being like other games or CCP selling out than I do.

But as I see it, while it might be not perfectly keeping with what the game is, the amount of gain is so small it's basically inconsequential.


But that's the thing! It doesn't even matter what the reward is, it conditions players to log in, shoot a rat, and log off again until they burn themselves out. It could be the smallest reward but people will feel compelled to log in and get it and feel like they're missing something when they don't, eventually turning the players away from the game as they become fed up with the cycle.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Gerhard Stringfellow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#432 - 2016-04-09 02:41:37 UTC
Ruby Gnollo wrote:
Kara Burnett wrote:
Please no daily quests. Or daily login rewards or whatever daily mechanic you can steal from generic mmos.

A beauty of EvE always was that it lacked those silly little tricks trying to force you to log in or do menial tasks you don't care about. Don't throw that away.


I really love that unique concept : the game where people not playing it have no disavantage against those who do play it.


I agree. This is basically introducing grinding to EvE.

Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
KQarberroh
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#433 - 2016-04-09 02:42:17 UTC
I dont think that this will get the meaningful gameplay that you want. A better idea would be to tie it to something more substantial than shooting a single npc.

You created this Opportunities system to help out new players and get them to explore new things. Maybe you could tie some free SP (100, 150 SP) every time you complete an opportunity challnge for the first time. This way new players get a boost for doing things and they are encouraged to stay out in space doing more things, not just shoot a single npc.
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#434 - 2016-04-09 02:43:40 UTC
Delilah Albertis wrote:
With more SP coming through more avenues, injector prices will adjust accordingly. The market price on a brand new item is not very ideal to base a long term metric off of. PLEX is an astounding example of that but that's an entirely different can of worms.

PLEX-based SP-farming has a break even price for a skill injector of about 0.53 PLEX. Prices have so far been higher and could fall to about this level due to CCP dumping SP on the market with "dailies". But unless CCP dumps so much extra SP on the market that the entire SP demand can be filled from it, prices will hold at roughly this level ... eventually. If the price falls below the production cost of a SP farm, then SP farming stops, leading to unfulfilled demand (once the stored up SP is depeleted) and prices are forced back up again.

So, one injector will cost more than about 0.53 PLEX. For a newbie, one injector delivers 500k SP, that's 1.06 microPLEX per SP. The proposed 10,000 SP for a rat kill are hence worth 10.6 milliPLEX.

If you kill a belt rat every 22 hours, then in 30 days you will earn 0.347 PLEX - at a minimum (considering newbie SP and break even injector prices). Assume I sit in Jita, need to jump to a different system, find a belt rat, kill it and jump back to Jita. I probably need 5-10 minutes for that. So maybe six hours total in those 30 days.

So the dumbest thinkable PVE activity in EVE - a JIta belt rat run - will net me no less than 0.058 PLEX per hour. At current PLEX prices that's about 60M ISK per hour. Probably it will be substantially more, since all my estimates were conservative.

That's one of the best PVE payouts in the game, You would be stupid not to log in for that. And so the daily chore begins...
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#435 - 2016-04-09 02:50:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
For now it will be per character, even if they aren't actively training.

"how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release.


So in a couple of years I could train a cyno alt into a T3 without doing anything more than killing 1 gate rat frigate per day?
Does the character have to kill the npc solo or can I use other characters I own to help?

1 minute or less to kill 1 npc frigate = 10,000 SP
10 minutes to scan down a relic site and pop 1 can = 10,000 SP
1 hour or more to pop 1 rock mining = 10,000 SP
I wonder which will be the more utilized way to get 4 hours free SP.



I wonder, if giving every player in the game 10,000 free sp per day will eventually balance out what is removed every time a skill injector is used by anyone other than a rookie?
On that line, can we save up the 10,000 daily SP and turn it into an injector to use on another character or sell on the market?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Gvaz Erto
Perkone
Caldari State
#436 - 2016-04-09 02:54:29 UTC
I love this idea. I am a new player and this will be super helpful.
Ruby Gnollo
#437 - 2016-04-09 02:55:42 UTC
Ruby Gnollo wrote:
Kara Burnett wrote:
Please no daily quests. Or daily login rewards or whatever daily mechanic you can steal from generic mmos.

A beauty of EvE always was that it lacked those silly little tricks trying to force you to log in or do menial tasks you don't care about. Don't throw that away.


I really love that unique concept : the game where people not playing it have no disavantage against those who do play it.

Hoooo, please CCP, do not reward people flying ships instead of not playing the game as it's always been designed not te be played, including :

- Stacking scammers in Jita
- Stacking industrial & market alts to manipulate prices
- Running afk alts to help gank Evil Newbies Schemes in HS
- Playing forever logged off caps alts
- Playing as many alts as your billion ISKs worth of PLEXes allows you to handle for free, at newbies expense

Please CCP, forget about the whole flying spaceships concept : please let Eve be a place of evil scamming politicians like in real life for those failed there who wouldn't even find a place in a coffee shop otherwise. Please, CCP, shall New Eden never be a game meant to be played, just to be talked about.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#438 - 2016-04-09 02:58:30 UTC
I'm not sure how Logging in to shoot a rat then logging back out because there's still nothing to do is going to create content in any way whatsoever.

Shooting NPCs doesn't promote player interaction in any way and player interaction is what creates content.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#439 - 2016-04-09 03:00:33 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Nice!

That's up to: 3,981,818 SP per year according to my preschool math skills. I like it. A lot.


Assuming you are at some point logging in before and after work and then during work. 22h timeframe remember?
Harkin Issier
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#440 - 2016-04-09 03:00:43 UTC
CCP I've quit games over this kind of bullshit.

When I feel like I'm falling behind when I'm not logging in, and then I'm not able to log in because I have a real job/life/whatever, I'm much more likely to say **** it and leave.

This idea is bad and needs to be stopped.