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"So, then, what is EVE?"
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Tiberius Seraph
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-04-08 14:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Seraph
I know this is a tired question, that has been answered over and over again, so, yes, I'm kind of reinventing the wheel here, but it has struck me how many people who don't play EVE - and even many who do - are completely wrong about what kind of game EVE really is.

I have been reading Andrew Groen's book on the history of the great wars in EVE, and some friends who've never played it noticed. All of them had heard about EVE, and they asked me what kind of game it is. I directed them to the book, if they would like a clear view of its world, but they claimed to have no time to spend on a book about a video game.

So then I proceeded to ask them what they thought EVE is. The answers I got were numerous:

  • An MMO role-playing game
  • A sci-fi game
  • A starship war game
  • A spreadsheet game
  • A sandbox


I mean, yeah, that's what they've heard about it. By all account's it's pretty much what you'll get for an answer from quite a few citizens of EVE. And it misses the point entirely.

EVE is not a game about galaxies and solar systems and starships. All these serve as the theme. It's not a role-playing game either. RP is just the vehicle it provides so that the players can assume a persona other than what they are in real life. It is not even a sandbox! (I know many will disagree on that) People in it are not always creating their own path - and even if they are, they are often swept away by the actions of those who are happily spending their time forging the path of larger groups, with a solid goal: Power.

Ultimately, EVE is a game of politics and grand strategy. Its tools are finance, commerce, industry, diplomacy, warfare, piracy, espionage. Its theme is space. Its vehicle, RP. Its content, the struggle for power. And that's how it should be presented to everyone: players and outsiders alike.
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
#2 - 2016-04-08 14:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scotsman Howard
The simple answer is it is a sandbox where pretty much anything goes. You can argue it isn't as much as you want, but in the end, every single point you bring up just points out that it is a sandbox.

You name it, you can probably do it in Eve.

You could ask the same question you asked your friends to people in Eve, and you would get the same mix of varied answers.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2016-04-08 14:58:49 UTC
Yeah ive thought the whole "will to power incarnate" thing myself when feeling particularly eloquent.

However thats neither particularly discriptive or easy to say over a drink without sounding like a comlete muppet.

The most concise i have mannaged is " persistent friedmanite free-market sim with no division in playerbase almost no restriction on player interaction ".

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Tiberius Seraph
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-04-08 15:06:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Seraph
Scotsman Howard wrote:
The simple answer is it is a sandbox where pretty much anything goes. You can argue it isn't as much as you want, but in the end, every single point you bring up just points out that it is a sandbox.

You name it, you can probably do it in Eve.

You could ask the same question you asked your friends to people in Eve, and you would get the same mix of varied answers.


I understand your point, but in the end, my question is: are you playing in your own game, or somebody else's? The line is not always discernible but you may rest assured that, as in real society, your actions and behavior in whatever you do in EVE are one way or another influenced by other players, and are not merely the product of your own volition.
Tiberius Seraph
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-04-08 15:09:18 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
...

The most concise i have mannaged is " persistent friedmanite free-market sim with no division in playerbase almost no restriction on player interaction ".


AKA "gaming experiment on the simulation of a laissez-faire type capitalist social structure"
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#6 - 2016-04-08 15:25:53 UTC
I couldn't disagree stronger if I tried. EVE is a game of 'politics and grand strategy' to some, but not to many. I, personally couldn't care less about politics. I don't care about the massive wars.

You're trying to tell people what a game means to them, and why they play. There is an inherent flaw in that.
Paranoid Loyd
#7 - 2016-04-08 15:41:32 UTC
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Eve is something different for everyone.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#8 - 2016-04-08 16:05:32 UTC
When the guy I work with sees me playing this game he always asks 'How in the hell do you play that game?'. Not as in 'How can you stand to play it?' but as in literally, how does one go about playing it. lol

Not today spaghetti.
Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
#9 - 2016-04-08 16:10:59 UTC
Let me show you my Eve-peen.

Hating is free, that's why poor people do it the best.
Tiberius Seraph
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-04-08 16:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Seraph
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
...
You're trying to tell people what a game means to them, and why they play. There is an inherent flaw in that.


No, I'm just stating my opinion. I will never presume to know, or - even worse - dictate, what every player thinks about the game and the reasons they play. I'm just stating that EVE is a place where human interaction is unhindered by normative rules imposed by the developer; as such, it becomes a playground for social dynamics. In other words, for political action.

Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Eve is something different for everyone.


Paranoid, see my response above. Again, there is no absolute, in that I will not, and cannot, brand my opinion as the absolute truth to which everyone must comply. It's not like "if you are not with me you are against me", neither do I claim to be infallible. Even if my original statement about the nature of EVE as a game is correct (and it might well be not) there is much more nuance to be added - nuance I cannot add because I lack the necessary knowledge and experience.
Yarosara Ruil
#11 - 2016-04-08 16:14:52 UTC
Zahara Cody wrote:
Let me show you my Eve-peen.


Please, don't.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#12 - 2016-04-08 17:02:05 UTC
Speaking as a newer player here, if I were to try to describe EVE in a short, semi-concise narrative I'd probably say something like the following:

"It's an on-line game where you are free to interact with other players in a universe that somewhat mirrors real life. Like life, it is what you make of it and your decisions either help or hurt your cause. Unlike life, you can screw up spectacularly and not lose anything but time, in game money, or have your character resurrect and go right back at it. You determine how much fun you have and realize you are always playing with, and against, other players. EVE is what you make of it."

After that it would just be Q&A.

I like Ralph's post for the absolute shortest terminology, but Tiberius' post works from the economic perspective.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#13 - 2016-04-08 17:46:55 UTC
Tiberius Seraph wrote:
No, I'm just stating my opinion. I will never presume to know, or - even worse - dictate, what every player thinks about the game and the reasons they play. I'm just stating that EVE is a place where human interaction is unhindered by normative rules imposed by the developer; as such, it becomes a playground for social dynamics. In other words, for political action.


And as I said before, it *can* be driven by social dynamics, but it isn't for a lot of people. That's assuming everyone treats EVE in one specific way
Tiberius Seraph
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2016-04-08 17:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Seraph
Cidanel Afuran wrote:

And as I said before, it *can* be driven by social dynamics, but it isn't for a lot of people. That's assuming everyone treats EVE in one specific way


But you see, this is my point: we may decide not to treat EVE in this specific way, and yet our choice does not alter the reality of how it works. We may or may not agree with the social structure and mechanisms around us in real life, but that does not change how the world works. It's totally independent of how we choose to see it or treat it. And I'm talking here from the perspective of a player that has never had any part in the political machinations of EVE - that I had not part in them does not mean they have not affected - even in a limited way - how I play (or how I choose to play) the game, despite my own concept about it.

Good discussion.
Tomika
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-04-08 18:10:22 UTC
It's a submarine simulator in space for alcoholics, nerds, wife neglectors, jerks and IT professionals.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2016-04-08 18:21:19 UTC
Why would i neglect my wifi ... Oh dear.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Xiahou Altiska
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-04-08 18:43:56 UTC
It's an economics simulation in space.

"Combat" is just a wasteful and sloppy way of reallocating resources.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#18 - 2016-04-08 19:11:11 UTC
EVE Online is sci-fi space game for creative and imaginative people who have ability to set and achieve goals without game dictating directions but merely providing tools to do so. Bear
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#19 - 2016-04-08 19:12:33 UTC
I'd say that, regarding what people who don't play EVE think about EVE, it hardly matters. EVE is what it is and, ultimately, you either play it or you don't.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Tiberius Seraph
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2016-04-08 19:32:28 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
I'd say that, regarding what people who don't play EVE think about EVE, it hardly matters. EVE is what it is and, ultimately, you either play it or you don't.


Bumblefck, from a player's point of view, I might agree with you. From CCP's point of view, I think it matters a lot - because it's a point you have to handle with care if you want to attract new customers.
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