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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Change ECM to a defensive e-war system.
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Madrax573
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-04-04 06:35:21 UTC
Having worked on some ECM systems in the past it always bugged me how it has been portrayed in Eve (yeah I know it's a game but I think will actually be better in any case Lol )

So my idea is that currently ECM is an offensive system. It attacks the targets electronics and 'jams' them stopping them from targeting anything.

I propose that it becomes a defensive mechanism. So when activated it prevents anyone from targeting the ECM using ship instead. It would use some mechanism similar to what it does now except it checks the targeting ship's sensor strength with the ECM users and will only be able to lock or maintain lock on the target if it higher etc.

The ECM using ship would still function as normal.

This function is much more logical in terms of electronic warfare etc.

Thoughts?
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#2 - 2016-04-04 09:26:57 UTC
Target Spectrum Breaker.

A signature :o
Madrax573
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-04-04 10:00:31 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Target Spectrum Breaker.


Yeah nah.

I originaly thought that but it requires lots of people to target the ship to be effective. This replaces the current contentious ECM e-war with something useful but less ...
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2016-04-04 11:42:08 UTC
Please see the other 'solo ships should instantly auto win every time' thread for the reasons this idea is terrible and you should be ashamed.
Madrax573
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-04-04 13:11:26 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Please see the other 'solo ships should instantly auto win every time' thread for the reasons this idea is terrible and you should be ashamed.


Yeah right.

If you think that this is wanting solo I win button then you don't really know much about ECM :)
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#6 - 2016-04-05 13:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Well it makes ECM useless except as a defensive tool, and a very niche one at that. Casually ripping out an entire race worth of offensive ewar and not even bothering to justify it in any way is enough to get a -1 from me.

On top of that, it would be useless outside of 1v1 or very small gang PvP, since a module like that only works well when you are only being attacked by one person or two people.

In most other circumstances, there are much better options for use those midslots. More tank if a shield tanker, more offensive ewar if an armor, or utility mods.

"Mod that might save my bacon if I'm only under fire by one or two people so it can break lock long enough for me to get away" is a waste of a midslot.

Much like the minute I spent typing a reply.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#7 - 2016-04-05 14:16:13 UTC
If an ecm ship in an enemy gang has no job other than to be immune from targeting, why would i want to shoot it in the first place?

It just becomes a floating paper weight.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2016-04-05 14:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
The mechanic OP is describing (defensive ECM) is more like passive systems such as radar absorbing paint that make it harder to target something. ECM is without a doubt an active system in that it actively disrupts a ships ability to target at all.

imo scan res and signature radius more closely fulfill a defensive role in that ships with a smaller sigRad in general require more time to lock and take less damage.

If I understand OP's proposal correctly, he is suggesting that if a ship that is targeted by an ECM module has lower sensor strength than the ECM ship, it will be unable to target only the ECM ship. In this case, could he not simply ignore the ECM ship? Its not like Widows, Scorpions, Rooks, Blackbirds, Falcons, Griffins, or Kitsunes have much dps. Navy Griffin does have some dps. But he'll just get gang-banged like normal anyway.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#9 - 2016-04-05 21:19:16 UTC
not all ewar acts as in a defensive way, lets go with the ewar tanks and and ied jammers equipped to military vehicles that operate by flooding a range of frequencies with so much noise that when you try to transmit to something it cant get there.

The defensive targeting your describing is more of a paint/design type.

I know in real life we don't have target jammers as nothing really locks on the way we do in eve, but as of now there is also jammers both aoe and targeted for use against missiles which all operate in a varity of ways.

this comes from my experience in Tactical Operations and battalion and brigade levels working under warrants that specialized in different aspects of aviation.

missiles work on a number of ways such as following a radar painting of an aircraft, inferred imaging by the weapon system having a "picture downloaded" into memory so it knows what to look for just to name a few, it was fun

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Madrax573
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-04-05 22:51:20 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
The mechanic OP is describing (defensive ECM) is more like passive systems such as radar absorbing paint that make it harder to target something. ECM is without a doubt an active system in that it actively disrupts a ships ability to target at all.

imo scan res and signature radius more closely fulfill a defensive role in that ships with a smaller sigRad in general require more time to lock and take less damage.

If I understand OP's proposal correctly, he is suggesting that if a ship that is targeted by an ECM module has lower sensor strength than the ECM ship, it will be unable to target only the ECM ship. In this case, could he not simply ignore the ECM ship? Its not like Widows, Scorpions, Rooks, Blackbirds, Falcons, Griffins, or Kitsunes have much dps. Navy Griffin does have some dps. But he'll just get gang-banged like normal anyway.


Agondray wrote:
not all ewar acts as in a defensive way, lets go with the ewar tanks and and ied jammers equipped to military vehicles that operate by flooding a range of frequencies with so much noise that when you try to transmit to something it cant get there.

The defensive targeting your describing is more of a paint/design type.

I know in real life we don't have target jammers as nothing really locks on the way we do in eve, but as of now there is also jammers both aoe and targeted for use against missiles which all operate in a varity of ways.

this comes from my experience in Tactical Operations and battalion and brigade levels working under warrants that specialized in different aspects of aviation.

missiles work on a number of ways such as following a radar painting of an aircraft, inferred imaging by the weapon system having a "picture downloaded" into memory so it knows what to look for just to name a few, it was fun


Pretty much. It would require a change to the 'role' of ECM ships.....

It also come from my time on EOD duties where we would use 'the suitcase' jammer while investigating IED's. Basically a powerfully multi frequency 'white noise' generator. Nothing could get in or out, but then you had to be sure that there wasn't any chance of the EM setting the device off itself!

Anyways just throwing some ideas out about probably the most contentious e-war in game.

Actually the more I think of it I reckon it would be better if ECM randomly shut down a module on the target ship for the duration than completely jam it up.

Having said that in the 10 years or so of me playing I think ECM has been a factor in probably less than 2% of my losses.

Bored at work again Roll
Lucifer Morningstar SoulTrader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-04-06 01:59:24 UTC
Madrax573 wrote:
Having worked on some ECM systems in the past it always bugged me how it has been portrayed in Eve (yeah I know it's a game but I think will actually be better in any case Lol )

So my idea is that currently ECM is an offensive system. It attacks the targets electronics and 'jams' them stopping them from targeting anything.

I propose that it becomes a defensive mechanism. So when activated it prevents anyone from targeting the ECM using ship instead. It would use some mechanism similar to what it does now except it checks the targeting ship's sensor strength with the ECM users and will only be able to lock or maintain lock on the target if it higher etc.

The ECM using ship would still function as normal.

This function is much more logical in terms of electronic warfare etc.

Thoughts?

this is seriously ******* stupid
Madrax573
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-04-06 04:42:42 UTC
Lucifer Morningstar SoulTrader wrote:
Madrax573 wrote:
Having worked on some ECM systems in the past it always bugged me how it has been portrayed in Eve (yeah I know it's a game but I think will actually be better in any case Lol )

So my idea is that currently ECM is an offensive system. It attacks the targets electronics and 'jams' them stopping them from targeting anything.

I propose that it becomes a defensive mechanism. So when activated it prevents anyone from targeting the ECM using ship instead. It would use some mechanism similar to what it does now except it checks the targeting ship's sensor strength with the ECM users and will only be able to lock or maintain lock on the target if it higher etc.

The ECM using ship would still function as normal.

This function is much more logical in terms of electronic warfare etc.

Thoughts?

this is seriously ******* stupid


Don't ya just love constructive criticism P
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#13 - 2016-04-06 13:47:52 UTC
Madrax573 wrote:
Lucifer Morningstar SoulTrader wrote:
Madrax573 wrote:
Having worked on some ECM systems in the past it always bugged me how it has been portrayed in Eve (yeah I know it's a game but I think will actually be better in any case Lol )

So my idea is that currently ECM is an offensive system. It attacks the targets electronics and 'jams' them stopping them from targeting anything.

I propose that it becomes a defensive mechanism. So when activated it prevents anyone from targeting the ECM using ship instead. It would use some mechanism similar to what it does now except it checks the targeting ship's sensor strength with the ECM users and will only be able to lock or maintain lock on the target if it higher etc.

The ECM using ship would still function as normal.

This function is much more logical in terms of electronic warfare etc.

Thoughts?

this is seriously ******* stupid


Don't ya just love constructive criticism P



It's constructive and concise. So yeah I love it.

The other responses pretty much say the same thing, they just do it politely and with opinions and facts. Had he lead with this response it would have been rude and trollish. Where it lands in the thread - it's more of a summary of the discussion.

Eve is one of those games where not everyone gets a trophy. (even in the forums)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-04-06 16:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
Madrax573 wrote:
Having worked on some ECM systems in the past it always bugged me how it has been portrayed in Eve (yeah I know it's a game but I think will actually be better in any case Lol )

So my idea is that currently ECM is an offensive system. It attacks the targets electronics and 'jams' them stopping them from targeting anything.

I propose that it becomes a defensive mechanism. So when activated it prevents anyone from targeting the ECM using ship instead. It would use some mechanism similar to what it does now except it checks the targeting ship's sensor strength with the ECM users and will only be able to lock or maintain lock on the target if it higher etc.

The ECM using ship would still function as normal.

This function is much more logical in terms of electronic warfare etc.

Thoughts?


Why would I want to ever field a ship whose role is to not be targeted? WTF is the Caldari line of e-war ship supposed to be about at this time if all ECM does is prevent people from targeting you? +20% chance per level of preventing the enemy from acquiring a lock on you? Nobody would ever fight those 1v1 and they would be instantly ignored in fleet/gang settings.

EDIT : Let's abuse the hell out of this.

[Scimitar, ECM troll logi]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

50MN Microwarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Multispectral ECM II

Large S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II

With link, this has a sensor strength of 130 countering pretty much every plausible fit ever made. They can't rep each others but that's a non issue since they can't be targeted by the enemy either.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-04-06 16:44:48 UTC
How about an un-targettable 26.3 km bubbles that travels at nearly 1k m/s? Unless your dps ships have a sensor strength over 170 somehow...

[Onyx, Mobile bubble]

Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Microwarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Multispectral ECM II

True Sansha Warp Disruption Field Generator
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II

The funny part about this is how bad I am at fitting ships and yet still find stupid way to abuse this idea.