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Pay It Forward New Eden

First post First post
Author
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#61 - 2016-03-24 22:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Aquiileia wrote:
The entire point of this thread was to try and encourage some people to be a little more "moral". Helpful, establish some feel good stories for a change in the midst of all the chaos.

As long as those feel good stories meet one standard of "moral".

No one system of morals is perfect; and especially in Eve, no one standard of RL morals applies to how anyone should be judged when playing the game within the rules an spirit of the game, no matter what they are doing.

But apparently that view, in the eyes of the moral high ground, equates to condoning RL cheating on a partner and having an endless list of moral flaws - not even for doing anything in game, just for posting in the forum.

There are always good things going on, both in game and out of game because of the community that exists here, largely because no matter how any of us play the game, the community is full of decent people who are able to distinguish in game activities from RL.

No moral judgements required just because one character scams another. That's perfectly fine in New Eden and makes no one a bad person IRL for doing it.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#62 - 2016-03-24 22:22:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Aquiileia wrote:
It's ok to stone your wife in some countries. Is that morally ok? It's ok to beat a monkeys head while alive until it dies so you can eat its brains in some countries. Is that morally ok?
According to the moral code of those societies, yes it is. Your moral code doesn't apply outside of the society you live in, trying to force it upon others rarely ends well; you only have look at the world today to see what I mean.

As I pointed out earlier, morality is not absolute and is influenced by the culture that gives rise to it.

Quote:
There is a big difference between legal, illegal and moral/immoral.
Actually there's not, laws are generally based on the moral code of the the society that makes them, the relationship between them is very intimate.

Quote:
The entire point of this thread was to try and encourage some people to be a little more "moral". Helpful, establish some feel good stories for a change in the midst of all the chaos.
It didn't come across that way, we've seen the "what you do in Eve reflects your real life" statement many many times in the past, and it's invariably wrong.

If you want to judge people by real life morals then you look at what they do in that environment; outside of the game Eve players are more than willing to help those in need, regardless of whether they play Eve or not, and if they do regardless of whether they be friend or foe.

Quote:
If EVE is your escape from the world that enables and encourages you to do things that you know you cant do without recourse in the Real World and thats what does it for you? Fine. You're in the right place. Does that make you terrible? I don't know. That's for you to decide.

Apparently you already decided for us Roll

Back-pedal harder.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Aquiileia
Mors et Vectigalia
#63 - 2016-03-24 22:48:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Aquiileia wrote:
It's ok to stone your wife in some countries. Is that morally ok? It's ok to beat a monkeys head while alive until it dies so you can eat its brains in some countries. Is that morally ok?
According to the moral code of those societies, yes it is. Your moral code doesn't apply outside of the society you live in, trying to force it upon others rarely ends well; you only have look at the world today to see what I mean.

As I pointed out earlier, morality is not absolute and is influenced by the culture that gives rise to it.

Quote:
There is a big difference between legal, illegal and moral/immoral.
Actually there's not, laws are generally based on the moral code of the the society that makes them, the relationship between them is very intimate.

Quote:
The entire point of this thread was to try and encourage some people to be a little more "moral". Helpful, establish some feel good stories for a change in the midst of all the chaos.
It didn't come across that way, we've seen the "what you do in Eve reflects your real life" statement many many times in the past, and it's invariably wrong.

If you want to judge people by real life morals then you look at what they do in that environment; outside of the game Eve players are more than willing to help those in need, regardless of whether they play Eve or not, and if they do regardless of whether they be friend or foe.

Back-pedal harder.


Very valid argument. I have to say, I've been bested.

I think you're right, however, I could be wrong but I dont think many of us are from those distant and barbaric cultures so we dont really have that as an excuse..

This is all just my opinion and its certainly not an attempt to sit on a high horse and judge. ID JUST LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE MORE GOODNESS IN EVE! lol Thats it!

I'm going to leave this thread alone from here. Some valid points made, many differences in opinion and thats ok. There is no hard line to define ones self. I've always looked at things in the eyes of another. How would I feel if this were done to me?

Thats it.

Be well and thanks for everyone's contributions.

Annemariela Antonela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2016-03-24 23:46:40 UTC
It's kind of a strange dichotomy that exists in this game. On one hand, it is ostensibly a social environment, with a lot of interdependence. Your call for altruism can be seen in that light I suppose. I guess it's theoretically possible to do everything by oneself, but certainly not efficiently.

On the other hand, if you think of this, or any arena in evolutionary terms, selection will arguably favor someone who steals a person's site over someone who is "a nice guy."

It's different because this is a game, and we aren't dealing with biological pressures. Conversely, there exists social pressure in the opposite direction-- a professional killer gets a lot more of certain kinds of recognition than someone who manufactures efficiently and operates in largely a live-and-let live manner, generally.

I'm just thinking out loud here, really. Ultimately, there doesn't have to be any rational reason for why anyone behaves in any particular way in Eve. It is indeed possible and probably a lot of fun to play it Chaotic Neutral, as was mentioned above.

“Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.”

― Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#65 - 2016-03-25 02:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Annemariela Antonela wrote:
On the other hand, if you think of this, or any arena in evolutionary terms, selection will arguably favor someone who steals a person's site over someone who is "a nice guy."

I kind of see it a bit different here, especially in the context of doing something in game vs how that reflects on someone in RL.

Taking a different game as an example.

In American Football, people block and tackle other players constantly. Yet if those same players went out into the street and did that not within the game, they would be committing battery.

In the context of the game, what they do is perfectly acceptable and within the spirit of play. We don't judge them as immoral or poor humans as a result of that.

Same here. What someone does in the context of playing Eve is perfectly acceptable if it is within the rules and the spirit of what Eve represents.

No need to judge anyone's morality on the basis that they play the bad guy. It's just a persona in a game, not who they are as a person.

Aside from that, doing things that others appreciate is a good thing that happens all the time in Eve, in all different styles of play.

So in terms of what is favored, taking the loot in a site first might favor the ninja looter in one respect, but then as per the OP's later post, he made a friend that invited him to assist on another site, so maybe it works out better overall for him. But neither person is morally superior to the other.
Hawke Frost
#66 - 2016-03-25 02:12:14 UTC
So if you play Battlefield or COD you're a mass murderer, if you play CS then you're undoubtedly a terrorist. Makes sense.
Annemariela Antonela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2016-03-25 02:43:06 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Annemariela Antonela wrote:
On the other hand, if you think of this, or any arena in evolutionary terms, selection will arguably favor someone who steals a person's site over someone who is "a nice guy."

I kind of see it a bit different here, especially in the context of doing something in game vs how that reflects on someone in RL.

Taking a different game as an example.

In American Football, people block and tackle other players constantly. Yet if those same players went out into the street and did that not within the game, they would be committing battery.

In the context of the game, what they do is perfectly acceptable and within the spirit of play. We don't judge them as immoral or poor humans as a result of that.

Same here. What someone does in the context of playing Eve is perfectly acceptable if it is within the rules and the spirit of what Eve represents.

No need to judge anyone's morality on the basis that they play the bad guy. It's just a persona in a game, not who they are as a person.

Aside from that, doing things that others appreciate is a good thing that happens all the time in Eve, in all different styles of play.

So in terms of what is favored, taking the loot in a site first might favor the ninja looter in one respect, but then as per the OP's later post, he made a friend that invited him to assist on another site, so maybe it works out better overall for him. But neither person is morally superior to the other.


Agreed. I'm not conflating morality with in-game behavior. What I meant to say is that there are avenues of conduct that appear to be opposed-- they could be labeled social vs. antisocial actions. On the whole, people in Eve do work together toward common goals (within opposed groups)-- they form corps, alliances, etc. But you also have ganking, awoxing, theft, scams, griefing, etc.-- this is quite different from football. Offhand, I can't think of many other games in which, for example, the defensive linemen in a football game suddenly switch to the other team mid-play.

Eve allows you to do that, and that freedom of choice of play is quite remarkable. It isn't easy to adapt to something like that. It makes people try to guard against it somehow, to feel they can carve out a safe zone, to trust. But the potential for chaos is always there.

It is an interesting universe indeed.

“Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.”

― Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon

Wanda Fayne
#68 - 2016-03-25 04:45:33 UTC
Aquiileia wrote:

This is all just my opinion and its certainly not an attempt to sit on a high horse and judge. ID JUST LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE MORE GOODNESS IN EVE! lol Thats it!

I'm going to leave this thread alone from here. Some valid points made, many differences in opinion and thats ok. There is no hard line to define ones self. I've always looked at things in the eyes of another. How would I feel if this were done to me?

Thats it.

Be well and thanks for everyone's contributions.



Be that light in the darkness. Eve needs it too.
Hold that candle tight though it is a bumpy ride

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#69 - 2016-03-28 10:51:27 UTC
Annemariela Antonela

one of the best profile pics ive ever seen in the game.

The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#70 - 2016-03-28 12:46:16 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Funny thing about morality is its often used as a yardstick to beat others with.

Even in RL there is no one single correct morality and New Eden is far from RL.


Oh there is always a correct morality. The trouble is discerning it. I view Man as a heroic being and if they cannot tell right from wrong they are not a Man.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#71 - 2016-03-29 22:48:18 UTC
Imperator Kane wrote:
Hello there OP.



How did you 2, out of all people in EvE, end up in the same corp ?

I get the why ... but not the how !

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Annemariela Antonela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2016-03-30 00:30:59 UTC
Darth Terona wrote:
Annemariela Antonela

one of the best profile pics ive ever seen in the game.



Oh, heheh, thanks.

I can always take this new augmentation off her too. For that classic ortho-human vintage look.

“Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.”

― Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon

Aquiileia
Mors et Vectigalia
#73 - 2016-03-30 22:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquiileia
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Imperator Kane wrote:
Hello there OP.



How did you 2, out of all people in EvE, end up in the same corp ?

I get the why ... but not the how !


The why?
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#74 - 2016-03-30 22:37:58 UTC
Aquiileia wrote:
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Imperator Kane wrote:
Hello there OP.



How did you 2, out of all people in EvE, end up in the same corp ?

I get the why ... but not the how !


The why?


No, the "how" is what I don't get.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#75 - 2016-03-31 00:30:37 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Aquiileia wrote:
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Imperator Kane wrote:
Hello there OP.



How did you 2, out of all people in EvE, end up in the same corp ?

I get the why ... but not the how !


The why?


No, the "how" is what I don't get.


It has been explained to me. I feel enlightened.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2016-03-31 14:54:30 UTC
Aquiileia wrote:
In the few months I've been back in New Eden I've been victim to and witnessed some pretty painful situations.
New Eden is a hard, unforgiving place where only the strong prosper while the rest struggle in angst.

...

I propose anyone who reads this thread, do something positive and selfless for another pilot in New Eden, even if only once, should the burn of decency cause scars. :)



New Eden is a hard, unforgiving place where only the strong prosper

That's what TPTB want you to believe.

Every now and then I fly into Uedama and helpfully drop off some containers near the gates stamped "CODE Mining Permit Recycling bin" and "Burn your CODE permits here" as a public service. I felt a need to give something back to the community that has been so good to me.
Doris Andedarie
BLOPSEC
#77 - 2016-05-27 05:33:32 UTC
Love the idea of paying it forward.

I've started a Pro-bono "order" that gives out free ships to starting corps and members.
Average 3-5bil worth per month basis; Asteros, Strats, Bombers....carriers.

So far just limited to a few Corps that deem 'ok' to give to.

ShockedEvil
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2016-05-27 07:46:38 UTC
Aquiileia wrote:
Look,
one thing I hate is having my words minced to serve another's purpose.

I didnt say people that PVP or wardec, or play eve are terrible people. I'm saying, the actions you take in EVE affects others on an emotional level. Those who are disgusting to others in game and get off on it for the shear grief it causes, to me, are terrible people.

I've accomplished what I have in the real world by being honest and having an integrity those who do business with me know they can rely on. Have I ganked a ship or two in EVE? Sure, I need practice. But I honestly feel bad, however, its happened to me so many times and yes, it is part of the game.

To say however, that just because its encouraged to lie, cheat, steal and scam in EVE that it's "ok" to me is wrong. It's ok to stone your wife in some countries. Is that morally ok? It's ok to beat a monkeys head while alive until it dies so you can eat its brains in some countries. Is that morally ok? There is a big difference between legal, illegal and moral/immoral.

The entire point of this thread was to try and encourage some people to be a little more "moral". Helpful, establish some feel good stories for a change in the midst of all the chaos.

If EVE is your escape from the world that enables and encourages you to do things that you know you cant do without recourse in the Real World and thats what does it for you? Fine. You're in the right place. Does that make you terrible? I don't know. That's for you to decide.



Hilarious thread, op. But I gotta correct you on the monkey thing. That's a myth. Nobody does that. Google it.
Gardav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2016-05-27 11:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gardav
Cien Banchiere wrote:
But why? What is the whole purpose of this? Other than to make yourself a target of the people you think are terrible human beings.

Good things do happen in this game. Do we really need a thread of feel good stories to get warm fuzziness though?


Why not?

Do we need a thread glorifying Players wrecking other peoples dreams? Or threads of Players detailing scams and thievery? CCP would say yes I am certain, and since that is the case then so too should we also see the stories of good things that happen in New Eden, for contrast if nothing else. If the "dark knights" can celebrate their victories and ideals why can not the opposition and everyone else in between as well?

I mean seriously... New Eden... without stories of "good" and "bad"? I mean think about it.

EVE might have been made to be some people's dream of "what IF?" but even darkness would not be seen truly as darkness without a little light in contrast. Just like light becomes stale and bland without darkness to show it's beauty. EVE is as much a morality play as it is many other things.

The OP was just sharing a little light in the dark universe that is EVE. There are some of us that cling to the light and abhor the darkness just like there are Players that cling to the darkness. We each have our niche once we find it.

The contrast is quite illuminating.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#80 - 2016-05-27 11:33:15 UTC
decent and moral mean different things to different people.

for instance i find it highly immoral that you would just let that newbie go rather than pop him and explain why he got popped