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C3 solo Maelstrom fit. Feedback requested
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Delegate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-03-29 00:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Delegate
Ligraph wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Usually BCs are considered the t1 ship to fly while "waiting for t3 ship skills to train. Or the SOE ships, the stratios for example.

The problem with training BS is you are training away from your goal. BS turret skills don't help you at all flying a t3 cruiser. Cruisers use medium turrets, BS use Large. So you're "wasting" your training time by planning to go BS then come back down to t3 cruiser.

Also, t3 cruisers are expensive, try flying in a stratios or something first, they are cheaper and pretty good at most combat sites. You also don't lose sp from dying.


Do you have a Stratios fit that can do c3s (or c2s for that matter)? I tried to make one a while back and had trouble with the tank. But it would definitely be an option.

I was also having trouble getting a BC that can do c3s. I have a Myrm fit that can do c2s, is there a Minmatar BC that can do the same? Had trouble fitting one.

That's a good point about the skilling though. I probably will use the skills for a Mach eventually (for PvP, not WHs), or maybe a Vargur for c4/5s.

T3 cruisers are a ways down the list of things I need to train atm though, so its not too much of an issue to train a little into a BS.


Don't train Tengu for solo C3. Its passe. Relatively slow and vulnerable.

For a while C3 were about Gilas. But now that Gila is nerfed what you are looking for is passive Rattle with Geckos. Its a short train - the two racial BS at IV are good enough. You can clear C3 sites with T1 purges, so the price tag is acceptable. Gecko blap frigates and have no problem with cruisers. Target painters take care about drone aggro (and Rattle Gecko has a massive ehp). For the missiles you can pick either heavy or cruise. You don't need T2 launchers in C3.
And finally you will quickly learn that rolling connections is a must. And that means BS is a must either way. From Rattle you can jump to rolling Raven or Megathron with no additional training.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2016-03-29 00:48:44 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Ligraph wrote:


Or, if I need to, I can kill everything but the frigates, refit a TP or two and lose a little tank, the MJD out and snipe. I'll be carrying a depot so refitting is an option.

Keep in mind if CCP has not already they are talking about adding a combat timer to refitting. I think it's only like a minute with weapons off before you can refit but still that is a minute each time and if you are switching back and forth for each wave that could be significant.
Ligraph wrote:

Another option is to fit tracking mods, TP, and web, and no MJD. Need to test on SiSi once I get the skills.

You can have a different training plan on SiSi than you have on TQ. You won't get those skills on TQ obviously but at least you can try something different.

Ligraph wrote:

The reason I went with guns over missiles is because I kinda need the repper bonus to get enough tank, and as far as I know there isn't a missile ship with that repper bonus?

repairing is only part of your tank. Speaking purely from an HP stand point there are 3 aspects to your tank. You have totally HP. Rep amount and then resists. In many situations you are much better off resisting the damage in the first place than trying to repair it after the fact.

Ships with resist bonuses can have incredible tanks. Resists benefit buffer and incoming remote reps as well as local reps. Rep amount bonus only helps local reps. Also you can't compare tank numbers that you see in EFT from a medium ship to a large since the medium can use speed to mitigate a decent amount of the damage.


If I understand the Combat Refit timers its PvP only. But that could be incorrect.

I'm still a few days away from the skills on SiSi.

I know how my tank works. I've tried using the non-bonused ships, while the ones with resist bonuses work, I prefer the Maelstorm and am closer to the skills (to fly it decently).


Also, about the slow BS vs fast frigates: there are no c3 anoms with scrams. I can warp out before I frigate will kill me. And I have enough tank to stay at 100% unless I hit a trigger.

I know there is a very real possibility of getting ganked, but rolling holes helps (which requires a BS), and I can scout out a hole fairly well using tripwire and pasta and a scanner ship.

Pyfa has a tool where I can customize my skills, so I can combine that with EveMon to determine how long it will take me to skill into what I need to run the sites.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-03-29 00:53:21 UTC
Delegate wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Usually BCs are considered the t1 ship to fly while "waiting for t3 ship skills to train. Or the SOE ships, the stratios for example.

The problem with training BS is you are training away from your goal. BS turret skills don't help you at all flying a t3 cruiser. Cruisers use medium turrets, BS use Large. So you're "wasting" your training time by planning to go BS then come back down to t3 cruiser.

Also, t3 cruisers are expensive, try flying in a stratios or something first, they are cheaper and pretty good at most combat sites. You also don't lose sp from dying.


Do you have a Stratios fit that can do c3s (or c2s for that matter)? I tried to make one a while back and had trouble with the tank. But it would definitely be an option.

I was also having trouble getting a BC that can do c3s. I have a Myrm fit that can do c2s, is there a Minmatar BC that can do the same? Had trouble fitting one.

That's a good point about the skilling though. I probably will use the skills for a Mach eventually (for PvP, not WHs), or maybe a Vargur for c4/5s.

T3 cruisers are a ways down the list of things I need to train atm though, so its not too much of an issue to train a little into a BS.


Don't train Tengu for solo C3. Its passe. Relatively slow and vulnerable.

For a while C3 were about Gilas. But now that Gila is nerfed what you are looking for is passive Rattle with Geckos. Its a short train - the two racial BS at IV are good enough. You can clear C3 sites with T1 purges, so the price tag is acceptable. Gecko blap frigates and have no problem with cruisers. Target painters take care about drone aggro (and Rattle Gecko has a massive ehp). For the missiles you can pick either heavy or cruise. You don't need T2 launchers in C3.
And finally you will quickly learn that rolling connections is a must. And that means BS is a must either way. From Rattle you can jump to rolling Raven or Megathron with no additional training.


Rattles are expensive :/ Wouldn't it be possible/better to run c4s in a rattle? Especially with gekos.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-03-29 01:08:51 UTC
Ligraph wrote:

Also, about the slow BS vs fast frigates: there are no c3 anoms with scrams. I can warp out before I frigate will kill me.

I was talking about other players.

It sounds like you have a decent handle on what's going on here now. It seems you've done a fair amount of reading up and have gotten some good advice and seem to have your head halfway decently screwed on. From here I think experience is the next step. You'll have to apply some of this stuff and see what works for you given your style.

Just as a disclaimer. I used to live in a C2 with a static C3 and tried running sites in a Maelstrom. I was an much less experienced pilot back then and very stubborn and slow to learn my lessons. I may be slightly jaded and have a little axe to grind about the Maelstrom and C2 / C3 sites. If you are a faster learner than me it's possible that your experiences could be better than mine.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Delegate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-03-29 01:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Delegate
Ligraph wrote:
Delegate wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Usually BCs are considered the t1 ship to fly while "waiting for t3 ship skills to train. Or the SOE ships, the stratios for example.

The problem with training BS is you are training away from your goal. BS turret skills don't help you at all flying a t3 cruiser. Cruisers use medium turrets, BS use Large. So you're "wasting" your training time by planning to go BS then come back down to t3 cruiser.

Also, t3 cruisers are expensive, try flying in a stratios or something first, they are cheaper and pretty good at most combat sites. You also don't lose sp from dying.


Do you have a Stratios fit that can do c3s (or c2s for that matter)? I tried to make one a while back and had trouble with the tank. But it would definitely be an option.

I was also having trouble getting a BC that can do c3s. I have a Myrm fit that can do c2s, is there a Minmatar BC that can do the same? Had trouble fitting one.

That's a good point about the skilling though. I probably will use the skills for a Mach eventually (for PvP, not WHs), or maybe a Vargur for c4/5s.

T3 cruisers are a ways down the list of things I need to train atm though, so its not too much of an issue to train a little into a BS.


Don't train Tengu for solo C3. Its passe. Relatively slow and vulnerable.

For a while C3 were about Gilas. But now that Gila is nerfed what you are looking for is passive Rattle with Geckos. Its a short train - the two racial BS at IV are good enough. You can clear C3 sites with T1 purges, so the price tag is acceptable. Gecko blap frigates and have no problem with cruisers. Target painters take care about drone aggro (and Rattle Gecko has a massive ehp). For the missiles you can pick either heavy or cruise. You don't need T2 launchers in C3.
And finally you will quickly learn that rolling connections is a must. And that means BS is a must either way. From Rattle you can jump to rolling Raven or Megathron with no additional training.


Rattles are expensive :/ Wouldn't it be possible/better to run c4s in a rattle? Especially with gekos.

Yes it is possible, even after rr "fix". But that will require a blinger fit – the costly part is triple T2 purges. You will also need deadspace resist amps (like b-type em/thermal/kinetic amps), but these are surprisingly cheap (used only on passive fits, which are not that many around). Depot will be required. Passive shield tank at IV min, both racial BS at IV cruise missiles and support at IV, heavy drones at IV and like 70km control range including drone link augmentor. This will be ok for sites that pumps up to around 1400dps, which is all but one anom in C4. Most importantly its ok for Frontier Barracks and Frontier Command Post. By 'ok' I mean sites will be slow, but ok given the income. For that one harder anom (Sanctum) and for the two harder sigs passive rattle won't do (perhaps it will in Pulsar, if you can find one empty).
For this kind of ratting you really want to have your wh under control. The benefit is that you can avoid running static.

Edit. You also want to learn that in Sisi. The key to not loosing your rattle is a proper warp in so you can kill neuting BSes before they drain you to the point you can't cycle your invul (yes, passive rattle will use invul). This is important when you have low skills. The key to not recycle your gecko every other site is a good e-war job. This one you also want to learn on Sisi. Take part in mass test, earn bonus SP and start exploring.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-03-29 03:01:06 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
there are no c3 anoms with scrams. I can warp out before I frigate will kill me.

Solar cell has a disrupting frigate, and it's the trigger so you have to wait to kill it which means you are pointed for the duration of the wave. It's not a particularly high DPS wave but I thought I'd point it out.

Most of the data/relic sites also disrupt.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-03-29 03:45:29 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
there are no c3 anoms with scrams. I can warp out before I frigate will kill me.

Solar cell has a disrupting frigate, and it's the trigger so you have to wait to kill it which means you are pointed for the duration of the wave. It's not a particularly high DPS wave but I thought I'd point it out.

Most of the data/relic sites also disrupt.


Oh, that's not on my guide's left column, thanks.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-03-29 06:11:23 UTC
Did some graph work in PYFA, seems that a autocannon fit will be able to take out the frigs no problem with the MJD, once they get a bit close.
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