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Off-grid boosts with warfare links, etc... discontinuing?
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Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2016-01-06 13:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
The ORE Command Ships are in a kind of meh state already. Regular Command Ships come at around 350M ISK, and you can use them for boosting, for front-line PvP or even for PvE. Slap 3 links and a tank on a Damnation, and it can still hold its own in the thick of battle, and even if you lose it, it will put you back less than 500M with fittings. An Orca costs 650M, and can pretty much only boost and haul, and is dead meat if caught. A Rorqual comes at 2 Bil, and can barely do anything useful to miners besides boosting (and ore compression, which can be done in a Starbase as well).

However, I'd really like to see both Orcas and Rorquals forced out into the belt if they want to give boosts. In order to make this feasible, though,both would need a significant rework to actually make them useful while out in the field, meaning that they will either need to do more than just give boosts or get a buff to their combat capability/GTFOability, else the price tag - especially for a Rorqual would be too high.
Solecist Project
#22 - 2016-01-07 07:55:42 UTC
Rorqual changes will change the landscape of the game considerably.

Not looking forward to it ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-01-07 19:19:20 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Rorqual changes will change the landscape of the game considerably.

Not looking forward to it ...


If they don't radically change how they work, people will stop using them. Anchoring yourself on a freely warpable celestial object with little mean of defending yourself. That is not a winning plan if you ask me...
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-01-07 23:52:42 UTC
The command destroyer alone makes it pretty obvious that OGB is not long for this world.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-01-08 00:45:46 UTC
It was stated by ccp they are removing OGB and believe that was linked on page one. As for removal, if other tweaks come, it can only be good. I used to fly on grid my boosters. Is great fun.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#26 - 2016-01-08 01:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
CCP Fozzie wrote:
When we have any timelines to report we'll report them, in the meantime all I can say is that it will happen sometime between now and the end of time. Very likely closer to now than to the end of time, but those things are hard to be certain about. Blink

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Moving links ongrid has significant technical blockers at the moment so it's not coming anytime soon, and between now and that bright sunny someday we'll spend a lot of time consulting with miners to make sure gameplay stays interesting and useful.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's a performance optimization problem. We could turn on range-based boosting in Odyssey [released on Tuesday, June 4th, 2013] but it would melt all the servers.

And this isn't being delayed by Odyssey, the team working on the underlying code that will make ongrid boosting possible (along with many other things) isn't releasing anything in Odyssey. It's just that big of a project.

So like I said before, at some point CCP Veritas will make all my ganglink-related dreams come true but I honestly do not know when that point will be. When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.

Some dev made a comment about brain-in-a-box (a.k.a. BIAB) now making on-grid boosting possible or easier, but I don't remember who it was, or where, so I'm not going to try to search for it. [related: Fanfest 2015: Rewriting Old Dogma]

What CCP Fozzie said at Fanfest 2014 (link has full text):

CCP Fozzie wrote:
[Rorqual] got the gang link bonuses, but it kind of also needs to be inside a force field, which is why we gave the mining links the exception when we removed all gang links from force fields.

What CCP Fozzie said at Fanfest 2015

What CCP Fozzie said on the o7 Show, Oct. 29th, 2015:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
... they ask if the Rorqual be getting looked at?

Yes!

So this is something that I've talked about I think at every Fanfest since I started at CCP, as well. it's up there with gang links as like the, excuse the pun, my white whale; we'll conquer it someday. We're not ready to talk about plans yet for it, but we do have plans, of course some of the plans have been around a while, some of them are newer. I can't promise that it's going to get its changes at the same time as the other capitals -- can only do so much at once -- but I also won't rule it out. We're going to do our very best, and we're gonna start talking to players as soon as we're a little further bit along. It's not quite as far along as the other capital changes, but we do have plans, yes.

CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's definitely a ship that needs some love. You know, over the years it has sort of slipped away from its...

CCP Guard wrote:
Its a ship that has a lot of love with a lot of players according to the questions we got

I can say like ... this is something I think I said at last Fanfest as well, but we really believe that fixing the ship has three main pillars:

* The ship needs to do powerful things itself on the field, which really means mining a lot itself.

* It needs to be able to very effectively support other miners, and other industrial ships, on the field.

* It needs to have defensive abilities that are useful enough that you can actually get a reasonable expectation of surviving on the field in nulsec

CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Instead of just leaving it in a POS

If we hit all those three pillars, I think we're going to get a ship that's extremely exciting for our industrial and mining players to use... and I think we can. We've got some stuff in the works for all three.

Will post more details when I can find them, like ...

Rorqual Down-Under
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2016-01-08 03:43:19 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Well I do hope it includes mining boosts ... why should miners be special snowflakes?

As soon as they either remove the arbitrary need to seige for proper bonuses or add it as a feature to command ships, then it should be properly balanced.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#28 - 2016-01-08 04:49:41 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Well I do hope it includes mining boosts ... why should miners be special snowflakes?

Because the Rorqual hasn't yet been changed in such a way as to make this realistic.

Nobody's going to activate industrial core while sitting in a belt unless they're ********.


I've seen it.happen. Evidently mining fleets in c1s are safe enough not to prompt many precautions.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#29 - 2016-01-08 09:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Well I do hope it includes mining boosts ... why should miners be special snowflakes?

Because the Rorqual hasn't yet been changed in such a way as to make this realistic.

Nobody's going to activate industrial core while sitting in a belt unless they're ********.

I've seen it.happen. Evidently mining fleets in c1s are safe enough not to prompt many precautions.

Umm ... ah ... erm ... C1 huh. It's hard to get a Hulk in there even.

Not sure if to /facepalm or be impressed.

[Guilty myself of building a Rorqual in a C2 via Orca ferrying materials, then self-destructing the Rorqual when we later moved out. Bought another Rorqual and jumped it into C5 (much easier), and later out. Still have that one. It always lived in a POS though.]
Isler Twy'Lar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-03-27 20:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Isler Twy'Lar
Val'Dore wrote:
Let the Rorqual mine directly and it will be in the belts with the rest of them. Problem solved.


Exactly. Command ships are capable of mixing it up on-grid. What can an Orca do besides pull cans? The Orca should have been a command ship that is actually capable of mining along side exhumers and mining barges.

Give the Orca some more high slots and the ability to fit strip miners/ice harvesters and I think a lot more people would use/risk them.

*Edit*
Actually, it would be kind of cool if links had their own slot type.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-03-27 20:48:38 UTC
The problem is, if the Orca could mine proficiently, what reason would there be to still fly an Exhumer in highsec? It would potentially let Barges and Exhumers become obsolete in HS.
Isler Twy'Lar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-03-27 20:55:33 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
The problem is, if the Orca could mine proficiently, what reason would there be to still fly an Exhumer in highsec? It would potentially let Barges and Exhumers become obsolete in HS.


There is a big difference between training into an exhumer and training into an Orca. Command ships haven't made T1 BC's obsolete. Yet, why would you fly a Brutix when you can fly an Astarte?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#33 - 2016-03-27 22:55:29 UTC
Isler Twy'Lar wrote:

There is a big difference between training into an exhumer and training into an Orca. Command ships haven't made T1 BC's obsolete. Yet, why would you fly a Brutix when you can fly an Astarte?

Yes, training to an Orca is much faster.
However the Orca is much more expensive, and you don't have to make the Orca better than an exhumer. You just have to make it active and similar to an exhumer while providing boosts. Then the boost pilot isn't an afk alt anymore but an active miner also.

Basic design point is that every pilot should be involved. And that doesn't mean pushing a button once every 10 minutes but actively engaged 'full time' with the game.
Be it mining boosts or combat boosts.
Isler Twy'Lar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-03-27 23:36:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Isler Twy'Lar
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Isler Twy'Lar wrote:

There is a big difference between training into an exhumer and training into an Orca. Command ships haven't made T1 BC's obsolete. Yet, why would you fly a Brutix when you can fly an Astarte?

Yes, training to an Orca is much faster.
However the Orca is much more expensive, and you don't have to make the Orca better than an exhumer. You just have to make it active and similar to an exhumer while providing boosts. Then the boost pilot isn't an afk alt anymore but an active miner also.

Basic design point is that every pilot should be involved. And that doesn't mean pushing a button once every 10 minutes but actively engaged 'full time' with the game.
Be it mining boosts or combat boosts.


I am not sure what side of the discussion you are on. Seems to me that you are making a point for allowing an Orca to be able to mine as well. I like the idea of an Orca pilot no longer being just an afk boost pilot. In fact I would rather see an on-grid Orca pilot mining than an off-grid Orca pilot.

So those of you who don't mine should ask yourself, do you want orca pilots providing boosts and mining on-grid where you have a chance at them or do you want them off-grid and safely providing boosts where you can't get to them? Do you really care if they can mine as long as you can get to them?
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#35 - 2016-03-28 00:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: pushdogg
Val'Dore wrote:
Let the Rorqual mine directly and it will be in the belts with the rest of them. Problem solved.



So....mining drones are on sisi. They have 200 mbit bandwidth. It may be a safe assumption that when the rest of the capitals get reworked, a rorqual rework may soon follow.

Back to the drones, with a big bandwidth like that, the rorqual is the obvious option. Which puts rorquals in belts mining, because boosts will be on grid.

I think this is one of the most obvious(speculation) precursors to on-grid boosts.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2016-03-28 06:28:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Solecist Project wrote:
Yeah but that's a special case, because they're ret... special needs kids.

That'll go away eventually.


You know what's far worse?

I've disconnected midwarp into a site, in a wormhole, and lost everything.

Now I'm sitting there in a pod. Well ... no ... because I ******* LOGGED OFF .......................................

Oh boy, this is rich. First we talk about "special needs kids", then we go on a posting spree about our precious stuff in completely unrelated thread instead of quietly making a petition. Special needs for attention much?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

pushdogg wrote:
So....mining drones are on sisi. They have 200 mbit bandwidth. It may be a safe assumption that when the rest of the capitals get reworked, a rorqual rework may soon follow.

I wonder if there going to be any limitations on what drones it will be able to use, and what kind of bandwidth we are going to be dealing with.
If you think about it, such a mining drone worth 4 Geckos in bandwidth...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#37 - 2016-03-28 07:38:20 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Oh boy, this is rich. First we talk about "special needs kids", then we go on a posting spree about our precious stuff in completely unrelated thread instead of quietly making a petition. Special needs for attention much?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

You may as well have resisted, Solecist isn't subbed and hasn't been for a couple of months now.
ACESsiggy
Pandemic Horde Inc.
#38 - 2016-03-28 08:58:19 UTC
Yea, i'd prefer to see boosts on an active player's ship that's on grid and participating in a fleet and not a random AFK character.

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2016-03-28 09:59:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Bringer of BadNews wrote:
it won't happen.

the demand for off-grid boosters in the character bazaar is great, people usually pay way overpriced for one too, so I doubt that they will get rid of off-grid boosting, that will mean less money for them. Furthermore, OGB has already been nerfed, and solo pvp is almost a rarity these days compared to 3+ years ago, so there is no real reason to get rid of it.
However, they could implement that on-grid boosting gives significant amount of extra-bonuses versus off-grid boosting, while using the same ship types. This can be used tactically, because you can have less and inferior ships engaging larger fleets, while having perhaps a rapier or whatever that has a long web range stay back with the booster to slow enemies down that try to kill it.

They should allow OGB to continue to exist with the same bonuses and if you bring them on field, within 150km or so, they should have significant more bonuses, and as an end result you have :

New challenging tactical playstyle that requires new methods, example interceptors to go for the boosters, while the fleets that use boosters have to resort on defensive tactics as well as how to protect it.

Knowing CCP, they will do it all wrong anyway at the end, getting rid of it all together.


It's almost as unlikely as ccp banning multiboxing through isboxer


just do what they done with other modules and add falloff attributes.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Oakatsura
Mercury Arms Inc.
#40 - 2016-04-11 09:58:26 UTC
I would look forward to Gang Link System being an on grid experience, I completed all the Leadership tree, and the most fun I have when I play a command ship is starring at my alts from a Station as I hear, don't risk the shiny ship. At least now, it will reduce Command Ships from sitting on Stations and near POS's all day, giving massive boosts to FW ships in Flippable Systems. Dogfighting can go back to being about fits and pilots, not about is their a booster in system somewhere 100 AU off grid.

"Very Happy to see this coming about, soon... maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not until the end of all time, but at least its in the cards, better than being the joker in the deck when playing Casino Poker."