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[Citadels Release] Capital Ship changes reaching Singularity!

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Rock Brackenshield
Wormhole's Watch
#201 - 2016-03-25 03:39:45 UTC
One thing, I was wondering if it would be possible to increase the docking range of the Wyvern for the squadrons it launches, if possible?

When I recall squadrons, the Wyvern I'm in actually gets bumped by the squadrons as they're being recalled
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#202 - 2016-03-25 03:41:40 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:

  • Fighter show info windows now include skill requirements (And they are correct in all cases)


    • What is the reasoning behind making carriers take so much longer than any other ship to train? their hulls are already higher than dreads and now they need 2 x12 skills just to use T2 weapons and 4x12 and 1x14 to be at peak effectiveness

    To be fair, one of the 12x skills only applies to supers. Still a ridiculously long train though.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #203 - 2016-03-25 04:33:48 UTC
    Rock Brackenshield wrote:
    One thing, I was wondering if it would be possible to increase the docking range of the Wyvern for the squadrons it launches, if possible?

    When I recall squadrons, the Wyvern I'm in actually gets bumped by the squadrons as they're being recalled


    This is not just the wyvern it happens to the nid and chimera

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #204 - 2016-03-25 04:36:56 UTC
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    CCP Lebowski wrote:

  • Fighter show info windows now include skill requirements (And they are correct in all cases)


    • What is the reasoning behind making carriers take so much longer than any other ship to train? their hulls are already higher than dreads and now they need 2 x12 skills just to use T2 weapons and 4x12 and 1x14 to be at peak effectiveness

    To be fair, one of the 12x skills only applies to supers. Still a ridiculously long train though.



    True But it's still much longer than a dread


    Or also means once you hit t2 you have no where to go unlike all other weapon systems where those who really want to squeeze a few extra % out can if they want to put the time in

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Torgeir Hekard
    I MYSELF AND ME
    #205 - 2016-03-25 04:48:58 UTC
    Eeeeh. 40km sig resolution and insane radials feel kinda weird.

    I understand the underlying math, but IMHO it would be better to do this in more familiar units - that is, scale down the resolution to 400m and adjust the radial accordingly for antisubcapital guns.

    It would both reflect the intended use for the antisubcap guns and put the stats in a familiar context where they can be easily compared to other antisubcap-capable weapons without resorting to a calculator or decimal shifts.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #206 - 2016-03-25 05:16:55 UTC
    Torgeir Hekard wrote:
    Eeeeh. 40km sig resolution and insane radials feel kinda weird.

    I understand the underlying math, but IMHO it would be better to do this in more familiar units - that is, scale down the resolution to 400m and adjust the radial accordingly for antisubcapital guns.

    It would both reflect the intended use for the antisubcap guns and put the stats in a familiar context where they can be easily compared to other antisubcap-capable weapons without resorting to a calculator or decimal shifts.


    except sig a res and tracking don't translate they are used for different parts of the equation. if a ship is not moving faster than your tracking or it is not in fall off then scan res means nothing it has no effect so changing the stats like you propose changes how these will be used

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Torgeir Hekard
    I MYSELF AND ME
    #207 - 2016-03-25 05:41:24 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

    except sig a res and tracking don't translate they are used for different parts of the equation. if a ship is not moving faster than your tracking or it is not in fall off then scan res means nothing it has no effect so changing the stats like you propose changes how these will be used

    This statement is factually wrong.
    The only part in the turret damage calculation where direct comparsion is used is the range calculation part. The tracking part is purely multiplicative.
    Your way of thinking is correct for themissile application, but turrets are much more straightforward.
    http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/images/8/86/TurretHitChance1.png
    The formula was out there on the official wiki until it burned down, and it de-facto has (Turret Resolution)/(Turet Tracking) in it without any specific thresold checks.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #208 - 2016-03-25 05:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
    Torgeir Hekard wrote:
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

    except sig a res and tracking don't translate they are used for different parts of the equation. if a ship is not moving faster than your tracking or it is not in fall off then scan res means nothing it has no effect so changing the stats like you propose changes how these will be used

    This statement is factually wrong.
    The only part in the turret damage calculation where direct comparsion is used is the range calculation part. The tracking part is purely multiplicative.
    Your way of thinking is correct for themissile application, but turrets are much more straightforward.
    http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/images/8/86/TurretHitChance1.png
    The formula was out there on the official wiki until it burned down, and it de-facto has (Turret Resolution)/(Turet Tracking) in it without any specific thresold checks.


    thats not at all how missiles work missiles sig is always calculated


    if sig was also always calculated no matter the trans flying straight at a BB in a frig would not be suicide nor would holding still


    if you want to see when sig is always calculated try hitting a non moving frig with a torp

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Torgeir Hekard
    I MYSELF AND ME
    #209 - 2016-03-25 06:55:13 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

    thats not at all how missiles work missiles sig is always calculated

    Perhaps my sentence structure was confusing, but the formula example and the following explanation was for turret damage.
    Missile damage logic was only mentioned as the example of damage calculation involving stat thresholds.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #210 - 2016-03-25 06:56:49 UTC
    So....

    we change carriers to be pure anti sub cap platforms and give them 3x12 skills to train


    then we give dreads HAW that out preform fighters at anti sub cap and are much easier to train




    whats the point of using a carrier O.o

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #211 - 2016-03-25 06:58:43 UTC
    Torgeir Hekard wrote:
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

    thats not at all how missiles work missiles sig is always calculated

    Perhaps my sentence structure was confusing, but the formula example and the following explanation was for turret damage.
    Missile damage logic was only mentioned as the example of damage calculation involving stat thresholds.


    either way if a ship is moving slower than your tracking you apply full dmg if it is in optimal regardless of sig

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
    CK-0FF
    Intergalactic Space Hobos
    #212 - 2016-03-25 07:04:35 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    Torgeir Hekard wrote:
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

    thats not at all how missiles work missiles sig is always calculated

    Perhaps my sentence structure was confusing, but the formula example and the following explanation was for turret damage.
    Missile damage logic was only mentioned as the example of damage calculation involving stat thresholds.


    either way if a ship is moving slower than your tracking you apply full dmg if it is in optimal regardless of sig

    Not really. For one, tracking is modified by the ratio of sig radius to sig resolution. Also, when something has angular velocity equal to your effective tracking, that's like them being stationary at falloff range. They need to be significantly under your effective tracking rate to apply full damage.
    Torgeir Hekard
    I MYSELF AND ME
    #213 - 2016-03-25 07:37:34 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

    either way if a ship is moving slower than your tracking you apply full dmg if it is in optimal regardless of sig

    Negative.
    Let's talk extreme examples, because they are good showcases.

    Let's take a Naglfar with capital arty. It's tracking is 0.00224 rad/s.
    Let's take a target doing 100m/s.
    At what range does this target have more angular velocity than the turret tracking?

    Well, we know that w = v/r by definition of angular velocity. Where w is angular velocity in radians per second, v is tangental velocity in m/s and r is distance to target in meters.

    Therefore r = v/w. With our numbers the threshold range is 100/0.00224 = 44643m.

    Okay, les't fire up pyfa, load up our naglfar (2414 deeps with 3 gyros), open the DPS graph generator and put it up against a target doing 100m/s at 90 degree angle. Now, if we take a taget with 5K signature then sure at 45km the numbers will be close (around 2180 deeps. Not full deeps, but close). But if we take a taget with 100m signature, the damage is, well, zero. Well, pyfa puts it at 1e-92 order of magnitude at the 44-45 range bracket.

    The outcome should have been pretty obviuos from the hit chance formula tbh. Again, it does not have thresholds in regards to tracking. It de facto only has a product of effective sig ratio (as in sig to turret resolution) and effective angular velocity ratio (as in angular to tracking). It's pretty obvious if you rearrange the fractions a bit that the turret stats are represented by (Turret Sig resoluton)/(Turret Tracking) without any further threshold checks, and you can proportionally change them without affecting the hit chance.
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
    CK-0FF
    Intergalactic Space Hobos
    #214 - 2016-03-25 08:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
    Edit: What I said didn't quite make sense.
    Captain Semper
    Fusion Enterprises Ltd
    Pandemic Horde
    #215 - 2016-03-25 08:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Semper
    Hello,
    After a lot of tests with dreads, fax, supers vs jamm i have enough information for feedback.

    CCP, fax have 200% sensor boost in triage, cars and supers have network array with 100% boost, and why dread's siege only 50%?
    I test vs single falcon with 7 magnitometrics jammers and my moros w/o any sensor boosters (only t1 siege) was jammed realy often like 50-70% (sensor str like 120).

    Test Fax 400 sensor str vs 2 ecm ships:
    https://youtu.be/azeMXAJEsuU
    After i turnoff triage my sensor str became ~170 and i was permajammed

    Not perfect falcon 11 jamm str (recon lvl 5)
    http://sss.ssmaker.ru/06607fea.png

    Totaly not perfect BB 7 jamm str
    http://sss.ssmaker.ru/20751268.png

    7/30 jamm cycle was successfully.

    So my my suggestion is:
    Var_1:
    Give all caps role bonus "-50% jamm time" or "+50% jamm resist".
    Var_2:
    Significant increase sensor boost given from siege, triage and netwotk array to ~300% for t1 and ~400% for t2.

    I think it is wrong that few ecm ships can permajamm fax/dread in triage/siege... Especial dreads that cant work from 500km like motherships or cars.

    Or mb jamm mechanics will be change? :)
    Plz, give some comments, CCP.
    Morrigan LeSante
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #216 - 2016-03-25 09:25:48 UTC
    Morrigan LeSante wrote:
    CCP Lebowski wrote:

    Known Issues/Bugs (In extremely rough order of badness)

    - NPCs do not currently aggress fighters.
    - Fighter ability buttons will stop animating if the fighter hud is moved.
    - Left click does not give go-to-point movement commands when clicking on a bracket in space.
    - Some rare issues where the fighter hud and launch deck will not not update or can duplicate buttons when fighters are killed with aoe weapons.
    - Active fighter modules are deactivated when selected while using F1 to active other squadrons modules
    - Unable to select or drag a fighter squadron from the fighter type section of the squadron gauge.
    - Safety level restriction feedback is not given by fighter buttons.
    - Saved fittings do not include fighters.
    - Carriers and Supercarriers still have drone bays
    - Cannot shift click to select multiple fighter squadrons (Ctrl click works)
    - The fighter navigation UI still draws vertical lines when the tactical overlay is disabled.
    - Double click squad move commands result in ship moving.
    - Number of fighter tubes and fighter restrictions attributes not visible in show info windows of ships.
    - Detach fighter hud button is misaligned.
    - Squadron gauge for fighter squadron in space is green if ship is boarded with fighters launched + launch deck icons are overlapped.

    Your feedback and suggestions are welcome in this thread, and please submit a bug report in game for any issues you find that are not listed above (F12 -> Report Bug).

    Thanks and happy testing!



    Could I please request that when you get 5 minutes, the OP(s) are updated as these are fixed so we know what we are working with?

    Appreciated.



    Re-request.

    Please Smile
    CCP Lebowski
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #217 - 2016-03-25 12:52:05 UTC
    Morrigan LeSante wrote:
    Could I please request that when you get 5 minutes, the OP(s) are updated as these are fixed so we know what we are working with?
    Should be up to date now Blink

    CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

    @CCP_Lebowski

    Morrigan LeSante
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #218 - 2016-03-25 14:12:27 UTC
    Thanks chief Big smile
    Kieron VonDeux
    #219 - 2016-03-25 16:24:26 UTC
    Many markets outside of 6-c (Syndicate) haven't been working for a few days.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #220 - 2016-03-25 16:48:11 UTC
    Torgeir Hekard wrote:
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

    either way if a ship is moving slower than your tracking you apply full dmg if it is in optimal regardless of sig

    Negative.
    Let's talk extreme examples, because they are good showcases.

    Let's take a Naglfar with capital arty. It's tracking is 0.00224 rad/s.
    Let's take a target doing 100m/s.
    At what range does this target have more angular velocity than the turret tracking?

    Well, we know that w = v/r by definition of angular velocity. Where w is angular velocity in radians per second, v is tangental velocity in m/s and r is distance to target in meters.

    Therefore r = v/w. With our numbers the threshold range is 100/0.00224 = 44643m.

    Okay, les't fire up pyfa, load up our naglfar (2414 deeps with 3 gyros), open the DPS graph generator and put it up against a target doing 100m/s at 90 degree angle. Now, if we take a taget with 5K signature then sure at 45km the numbers will be close (around 2180 deeps. Not full deeps, but close). But if we take a taget with 100m signature, the damage is, well, zero. Well, pyfa puts it at 1e-92 order of magnitude at the 44-45 range bracket.

    The outcome should have been pretty obviuos from the hit chance formula tbh. Again, it does not have thresholds in regards to tracking. It de facto only has a product of effective sig ratio (as in sig to turret resolution) and effective angular velocity ratio (as in angular to tracking). It's pretty obvious if you rearrange the fractions a bit that the turret stats are represented by (Turret Sig resoluton)/(Turret Tracking) without any further threshold checks, and you can proportionally change them without affecting the hit chance.


    lol yeah why i shouldn't be on at 4 am :/

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble