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[Citadels Release] Capital Ship changes reaching Singularity!

First post
Author
Lugh Crow-Slave
#181 - 2016-03-24 06:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Fair enough, but in what situations would it be worth dropping a squad of lights to use a support squad? The only thing I can think of is if you really need webs because somebody messed up the fit and/or fleet composition.


while there are plenty of reasons to use the web fighters besides some one screwed up (such as only shortly to catch something till your fleets tackle can get there) the cap and ecm ones i can only see right now being used as a last minute crap i need to break tackle and the disruption one is just a joke in a popper fleet.




maybe giving the fighters a limited 3rd ability

the two i like the most with this are

a short duration 5-10s powerful paint for the minmatar ones (this will allow for a timed fleet alpha if coordinated right)

and a short duration scram 10-20 for the gal (this will help your tackle catch a ship using an mwd but cant hold it on their own)


the amarr and caldari ones are harder as i cant really find a way to give them a fleet oriented ability

for amarr a high alpha nuet maybe?

caldari an ECM burst or perhaps a very strong ecm blast with a long cool down?


these would all have a limited number of uses b4 heading back to the carrier 3-5
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
#182 - 2016-03-24 06:46:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Fair enough, but in what situations would it be worth dropping a squad of lights to use a support squad? The only thing I can think of is if you really need webs because somebody messed up the fit and/or fleet composition.


while there are plenty of reasons to use the web fighters besides some one screwed up (such as only shortly to catch something till your fleets tackle can get there) the cap and ecm ones i can only see right now being used as a last minute crap i need to break tackle and the disruption one is just a joke in a popper fleet.




maybe giving the fighters a limited 3rd ability

the two i like the most with this are

a short duration 5-10s powerful paint for the minmatar ones (this will allow for a timed fleet alpha if coordinated right)

and a short duration scram 10-20 for the gal (this will help your tackle catch a ship using an mwd but cant hold it on their own)


the amarr and caldari ones are harder as i cant really find a way to give them a fleet oriented ability

for amarr a high alpha nuet maybe?

caldari an ECM burst or perhaps a very strong ecm blast with a long cool down?


these would all have a limited number of uses b4 heading back to the carrier 3-5

The short burst web and scram are interesting ideas. The scram probably wouldn't be fair though since it could be used to cancel an MJD every time.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#183 - 2016-03-24 07:05:53 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Fair enough, but in what situations would it be worth dropping a squad of lights to use a support squad? The only thing I can think of is if you really need webs because somebody messed up the fit and/or fleet composition.


while there are plenty of reasons to use the web fighters besides some one screwed up (such as only shortly to catch something till your fleets tackle can get there) the cap and ecm ones i can only see right now being used as a last minute crap i need to break tackle and the disruption one is just a joke in a popper fleet.




maybe giving the fighters a limited 3rd ability

the two i like the most with this are

a short duration 5-10s powerful paint for the minmatar ones (this will allow for a timed fleet alpha if coordinated right)

and a short duration scram 10-20 for the gal (this will help your tackle catch a ship using an mwd but cant hold it on their own)


the amarr and caldari ones are harder as i cant really find a way to give them a fleet oriented ability

for amarr a high alpha nuet maybe?

caldari an ECM burst or perhaps a very strong ecm blast with a long cool down?


these would all have a limited number of uses b4 heading back to the carrier 3-5

The short burst web and scram are interesting ideas. The scram probably wouldn't be fair though since it could be used to cancel an MJD every time.



only if they were close enough to it to do that limiting the range to 1/2 that the current disrupter uses may help there.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#184 - 2016-03-24 07:46:43 UTC
currently all the differant fighters have different icons in the fighter bays any chance we can get these moved onto the overview

back when this was tried with drones it made seance not to do it do to the vast numbers and similar uses but as a carrier pilot being able to see at a glance if the fighter group coming this way is a flight of heavy bombers or space supremacist fighters is going to be vary important
Luscius Uta
#185 - 2016-03-24 07:58:26 UTC
Yesterday I warped to CA1 in a heavily tanked Phobos, and got popped almost instantly by a GTFO doomsday. My pod was destroyed as well. Broken much?

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#186 - 2016-03-24 19:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Lebowski
Hey all,

Endless thanks for all the great feedback so far. We've been working as hard as we can to get all the features implemented and smash some through the outstanding bugs. so apologies for the lack of hard stats or responses to design questions in this thread. Rest assured, all your feedback is being read and considered, even if we don't have the time to reply. For now I just want to summarise whats landed on Singularity in the last few days and whats been fixed!

New Things/Fixes

  • Most T1 & T2 new and updated capital modules should now be seeded on the market. This includes but is not limited to: Superweapons, Armor Plates, Shield Extenders, Skills, Prop Mods, Capital Weapons, Fighters & Ammo. Go forth and see what you can find!
  • Fighters should now deal with being abandoned appropriately (They will go inert after a cycle if their controller disappears).
  • Fighters will now warp back to you if you recall them from another location in a system
  • The stats for all capital related items are still being iterated upon. Full feedback threads for these will be coming soon!
  • Fighters will now obey the safety settings of their controller (And their UI should reflect this)
  • Fighters now honour skill requirements in all cases
  • Fight navigation lines go red when the squadron is engaging the target.
  • Fixed various text errors
  • Removed drone bays from Carriers and Supercarriers
  • The Fighter navigation UI now doesn't draw vertical lines while the Tac Overlay is off
  • Fighter show info windows now include skill requirements (And they are correct in all cases)
  • Force Aux wrecks now have appropriate hit points
  • Capital Shield Extenders now give more than a measly 94 hp bonus Big smile
  • Fighter abilities now stop flashing green when deactivated.


That's all for now! Many more things will be fixed and implemented in the coming days, so stay tuned for more info! For now, to allow a bit more flexibility in what you can test, I'm providing an additional 8 injectors for every Singularity pilot, check your redeeming queues!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#187 - 2016-03-24 19:47:55 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
I am on SISI, and don't see HAW for Phoenix. is it still WIP at moment?

HAW stats look weird, so I guess they will be adjusted in later?

40km sig res with 3.1 rad/sec is quite interesting
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
#188 - 2016-03-24 19:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

Endless thanks for all the great feedback so far. We've been working as hard as we can to get all the features implemented and smash some through the outstanding bugs. so apologies for the lack of hard stats or responses to design questions in this thread. Rest assured, all your feedback is being read and considered, even if we don't have the time to reply. For now I just want to summarise whats landed on Singularity in the last few days and whats been fixed!

New Things/Fixes

  • All T1 & T2 new and updated capital modules should now be seeded on the market. This includes but is not limited to: Superweapons, Armor Plates, Shield Extenders, Skills, Prop Mods, Capital Weapons, Fighters & Ammo. Go forth and see what you can find!
  • Fighters should now deal with being abandoned appropriately (They will go inert after a cycle if their controller disappears).
  • Fighters will now warp back to you if you recall them from another location in a system
  • The stats for all capital related items are still being iterated upon. Full feedback threads for these will be coming soon!
  • Fighters will now obey the safety settings of their controller (And their UI should reflect this)
  • Fighters now honour skill requirements in all cases
  • Fight navigation lines go red when the squadron is engaging the target.
  • Fixed various text errors
  • Removed drone bays from Carriers and Supercarriers
  • The Fighter navigation UI now doesn't draw vertical lines while the Tac Overlay is off
  • Fighter show info windows now include skill requirements (And they are correct in all cases)
  • Force Aux wrecks now have appropriate hit points
  • Capital Shield Extenders now give more than a measly 94 hp bonus Big smile
  • Fighter abilities now stop flashing green when deactivated.


That's all for now! Many more things will be fixed and implemented in the coming days, so stay tuned for more info! For now, to allow a bit more flexibility in what you can test, I'm providing an additional 8 injectors for every Singularity pilot, check your redeeming queues!

This is some great progress. It's exciting to see how it's all starting to come together. Now if only the market worked so we could buy this seeded stuff...

On another note, the camera feels incredibly slow when docked in a citadel. It's not too bad horizontally, but adjusting the camera vertically can easily require moving the cursor more than the height of the screen. The fact that vertical adjustment requires moving the cursor twice as far for the same angle as horizontal adjustment is bad enough, but combined with most screens not being as tall as they are wide and the slow movement in citadels, it's a chore to look up or down.

Also is the weapon timer from Networked Sensor Arrays a design decision or a mistake? I can't think of any reason a module that's basically a giant Sensor Booster with a downside should give the timer.

And about the fighter skills, are the requirements for T2 fighters final? Having to train two 12x skills to V for T2 fighters seems insane. I could train my carrier pilot with no gunnery skills to use two separate types of T2 dread guns in the time it would take to finish getting T2 light fighters.
Soleil Fournier
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#189 - 2016-03-24 20:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
**Updated with numbers!**

The issue (apples to apples comparison): Due to the 8th low slot, Drone Damage Units, and current 7.5% hull damage bonuses, the Aeon will out tank *and* out DPS a Nyx.

The numbers: (fit is 2 Plates, 3 Active Hardners, 2 EANMs, max implants)

Nyx: 15,069,439
Aeon: 17,366,673

Ok, we expect that. Here's where the problem comes in. The aeon also fit a DDU into the lows, meaning it not only has 2.3 million effective HP more than the Nyx, it also does 7.5% more damage!! (my aeon skill is only level 3 btw).

So lets take that DDU off the Aeon and add an extra hardener: 21 million EHP. That's 7 million EHP more than the Nyx while only dealing 12.5% less damage at current hull bonuses. Aeon is still the better choice.

If we take an EANM off to add a DDU to the Nyx? It loses 3 million EHP, which isn't worth it.

So to recap, the Aeon is better than the Nyx in every situation. Same for Wyvern, which also fits DDUs into the lows.


Best solution:

Keep current hull bonuses but give the Nyx the ability to use a 4th squad of heavies/lights while limiting the tank classes to 3. I find this idea interesting, and would preserve the nyx as the pure damage choice unless the aeon goes multiple DDUs which would sacrifice its tank advantage.


Other possible solutions:

Reverting to 10% dmg/level doesn't solve this problem. A 25% bonus to damage on nyx gets counteracted by the one 20% (+faction %) DDU in the aeon 8th lowslot.

Add mid slot drone damage mods. The downside is this will affect all ship classes and could lead to balance issues.

Nyx gets -1 mid/+1 low. This goes against tradition of slot layouts for Gallente vs Amarr.

Don't allow drone mods to affect fighters. Not my favorite because it removes customization choices.
Soleil Fournier
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#190 - 2016-03-24 20:09:48 UTC
And I applaud you guys as well for the great progress and your reaction to player feedback. It's been awesome to see the improvements go in.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
#191 - 2016-03-24 20:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Soleil Fournier wrote:
The issue (apples to apples comparison):

Due to the 8th low slot, Drone Damage Units, and current 7.5% hull damage bonuses, the Aeon will have significantly more HP than Nyx's -and- deal more damage! DDUs and the new need for armor plates changed the old dynamic where Nyx's did 25% more damage in all cases giving the pilot a choice of damage or tank.

The fit: 2 Plates, 3 Active Hardners, 2 EANMs. The difference being the Aeon gets the 20% resistance hull bonus, higher base armor, and the 8th low slot to put on a 20+% drone damage unit, meaning they have higher HP and deal 7.5+% more damage than nyx's! Or, if the Aeon chooses to add an additional damage control instead of a DDU, they have even more EHP and only deal 12.5% less damage. If the Nyx chose to use DDUs in lieu of EANM, they lose 2 million EHP which is a non starter. In all cases, the Aeon is clearly the winner.


Best solution:

Keep current hull bonuses but give the Nyx the ability to use a 4th squad of heavies/lights while limiting the tank classes to 3. I find this idea interesting, and would preserve the nyx as the pure damage choice unless the aeon goes multiple DDUs which would sacrifice its tank advantage.


Other possible solutions:

Revert to 10% hull damage bonus for Nyx or reduce aeon (and wyvern) fighter damage bonus to 2.5%. Unfortunately this doesn't fix the issue because while Nyx's will do more damage than an Aeon with above fit and DDU, it's only 5% more damage while having significantly less HP (and less than 5% dmg with faction DDU). Aeons still win in this scenario.

Add mid slot drone damage mods. The downside is this will affect all ship classes and could lead to balance issues.

Nyx gets -1 mid/+1 low. This goes against tradition of slot layouts for Gallente vs Amarr.



You forgot one other option which is to give the Nyx back its larger damage bonus. Obviously it might affect balance a bit, but doing 10% more damage (137.5% / 125%) is laughable compared to 25% more tank (20% resistance = 80% damage taken = 125% EHP and repping ability). Same for Thanatos, but at least it gets 12.5% more damage than an Archon.
Grookshank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2016-03-24 20:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Grookshank
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

Endless thanks for all the great feedback so far. We've been working as hard as we can to get all the features implemented and smash some through the outstanding bugs. so apologies for the lack of hard stats or responses to design questions in this thread. Rest assured, all your feedback is being read and considered, even if we don't have the time to reply. For now I just want to summarise whats landed on Singularity in the last few days and whats been fixed!

New Things/Fixes

  • Most T1 & T2 new and updated capital modules should now be seeded on the market. This includes but is not limited to: Superweapons, Armor Plates, Shield Extenders, Skills, Prop Mods, Capital Weapons, Fighters & Ammo. Go forth and see what you can find!
  • Fighters should now deal with being abandoned appropriately (They will go inert after a cycle if their controller disappears).
  • Fighters will now warp back to you if you recall them from another location in a system
  • The stats for all capital related items are still being iterated upon. Full feedback threads for these will be coming soon!
  • Fighters will now obey the safety settings of their controller (And their UI should reflect this)
  • Fighters now honour skill requirements in all cases
  • Fight navigation lines go red when the squadron is engaging the target.
  • Fixed various text errors
  • Removed drone bays from Carriers and Supercarriers
  • The Fighter navigation UI now doesn't draw vertical lines while the Tac Overlay is off
  • Fighter show info windows now include skill requirements (And they are correct in all cases)
  • Force Aux wrecks now have appropriate hit points
  • Capital Shield Extenders now give more than a measly 94 hp bonus Big smile
  • Fighter abilities now stop flashing green when deactivated.


That's all for now! Many more things will be fixed and implemented in the coming days, so stay tuned for more info! For now, to allow a bit more flexibility in what you can test, I'm providing an additional 8 injectors for every Singularity pilot, check your redeeming queues!

T2 dread guns are not shown as variation of the T1/faction ones, which initially made me think, they are not there yet.

Are the skill requirements for the new shields, plates and guns implemented as planned/final?
Soleil Fournier
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#193 - 2016-03-24 20:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
I included that option (under other possibilities).

The problem is having a 25% nyx damage bonus gets mostly counteracted by a single 20+% drone damage mod in the 8th aeon low slot, and the nyx can't use a DDU to match without losing massive amounts of an already weaker tank.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
#194 - 2016-03-24 20:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Grookshank wrote:

Did you perhaps for get to type something?
Soleil Fournier
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#195 - 2016-03-24 21:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
Current fighter usability issues:


1) Please allow the fighter special abilities to auto repeat. The endless clicking on multiple squadron abilities after each cycle is tedious, especially on short duration abilities like heavy missiles. Ammo management should be the key here, not who remembers to click more often.

2) if heavies keep the MJD, please give a visual indication of their range on grid so I know approximately where they will land. Right now it's hope and pray they land somewhere close to where I would like them. An idea would be to lock the radial selection to their jump range.

3) Damaged squadrons don't auto repair once refueled. I had to unload and reload the squadron into the tube to repair the damage. The damaged fighters were fixed upon reloading into the tube. Repair time should factor into refuel time.

4) when clicking launch all fighters, the first tube does not launch until you click the button a second time

5) When launching/recalling fighters, the tube UI 'jumps' up or down respectively when the abilities appear. Prefer the tubes stay where I put them and the ability icons don't cause it to jump around.

Other suggestion:

Increase fighter refuel/rearm time to 20 seconds. The near instant refuel/reload/relaunch is bad when I can recall my fighters, then deploy them and fire special abilities on a close range target without delay. Think Battle of Midway. Ties in with Ammo management from issue number 1.
Pellmen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#196 - 2016-03-24 22:59:00 UTC
You need level 5 light and support fighters skills to use t2 variants? Are you kidding? I thought it was smith like specialisation skills for t2 guns... All hail skill injectors... Straight
Demolishar
United Aggression
#197 - 2016-03-24 23:39:24 UTC
Do Titans really still need to be limited to three locked targets? That was originally a band-aid for the tracking Titan 'problem' which was solved by other means - sig based damage reduction - long ago.
Tribal Trogdor
Better Off Red
Unspoken Alliance.
#198 - 2016-03-25 00:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tribal Trogdor
Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I is an Arty

Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery II labeled as, and looks like an Auto, but has stats of an Arty



The capital Ancillary Shield Booster is misspelled as Capital Anciliary Shield Booser
Lugh Crow-Slave
#199 - 2016-03-25 03:10:19 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:

Other suggestion:

Increase fighter refuel/rearm time to 20 seconds. The near instant refuel/reload/relaunch is bad when I can recall my fighters, then deploy them and fire special abilities on a close range target without delay. Think Battle of Midway. Ties in with Ammo management from issue number 1.


issue i see with this is it limits a carriers already short range

better option is 5-8 seconds and not to engage a carrier in close range combat
Lugh Crow-Slave
#200 - 2016-03-25 03:30:32 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:

  • Fighter show info windows now include skill requirements (And they are correct in all cases)


  • What is the reasoning behind making carriers take so much longer than any other ship to train? their hulls are already higher than dreads and now they need 2 x12 skills just to use T2 weapons and 4x12 and 1x14 to be at peak effectiveness