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I think this thread has run its course.

Clearly the very vocal cheerleaders for the null blocs have declared all things Citadel to be good and anyone arguing against it or from a perspective other than their own to be losers of no merit.

The real problem is a fundamental difference of perspective.

This is the first set of changes that directly impact the way I want to play. Call this quid pro quo for the howls or rage from all the null bloc types over the jump range nerfs and Fozziesov (which had little or no effect on players like me), if you will.

What I do is shoot folks, encourage other folks to shoot folks and provide help and support to folks who want to learn to shoot folks. Classic small (and occasionally not so small) gang PVP.

I've been playing for almost three years, so no salty veteran here. I've spent most of that time in null, and most of that in NPC null.

Why? So I could play the way I wanted to. NPC stations are the enabler for that. Their ability to support industry, local markets, jump clone facilities - that is how they enable casuals like me to be long term residents in null, providing content to the neighborhood by shooting at everybody who comes along.

NPC stations with affordable services and jump clone facilities are the enabler for the roams we run almost every day (with the occasional bigger public one thrown in). We encourage newbies to spend some time out in null, try mining, exploration, whatever. This will increase the cost of those activities in an already marginal area of space from an economic perspective and will be a bigger deterrent to encouraging new players to try PVP and nullsec and maybe even eventually join a big alliance.

All this e-peening over percentage points of station tax or the finer historical points of early 20th century robber barons - kind of missing the point. The net effect of these changes is a big nerf-hammer on a wide range of play-styles in order to make citadels look better - something that just happens to nerf everybody except the big null bloc folks in a fairly meaningful way.

Most players I have personally known in EVE don't play any more.

Most current players I know are no longer very active.

Quite a few still hanging on (including a couple ten year plus vets) have already decided to let their subs run out as nerfing the ability to operate out of NPC stations (and NPC space) is simply not worth the aggro.

CCP is taking a cudgel to a play style enjoyed by many.

Posting it without that sentence doesn't make it more readable, when the guy wrote it, it was still written with furious "grr blobs" fingers. When he comes back with a level head and an objective viewpoint I'll consider it, until then it's written off. From the buzzwords that pop out of it, it will just be more doom and gloom about how apocalyptic it is to make the game more dynamic anyway.

In my first post referencing Standard I did not say Standard was a monopoly. That term has been used with regards to Standard and it is often presented as the quintessential monopoly, but when one looks at the facts it isn't unless one wants to use some strange definition of a monopoly.

As for how to create a monopoly you need force. Coercion. That is the only way to do it.

I don't need to. You just made my point for me, quite succinctly.

Clearly, if anyone disagrees with you or argues from a different perspective "there's no real point in reading further."

Lol? This a joke? You literally came in basically accusing anyone that disagree with your point of view of being "cheerleaders for the null blocs". Clearly you've got this "us vs them" thing in your head, so it stands to reason that your posts will be the same. Since I know for a fact hat my point of view has nothing to do with the null groups and I care more about objective opinion than blatant bias, there's little point getting involved in a discussion with someone like yourself.

If you want to take that as making your point, go right ahead, you're still completely wrong.

Do you have a plan to make having a market in a highsec/lowsec Citadel viable? Or does "Everything has to stay a level playing field for everyone in highsec" truly mean that no structure can give any significant bonus cause it would put someone else at a disadvantage?

At current tax rates, there is no reason to use citadels in highsec or lowsec anywhere there is a convenient NPC station, and those are basically everywhere. How do you propose to make a citadel worth operating if every service it can provide must be offered at the same level as the current incredibly cheap and safe NPC services?

When POS's are phased out an Citadels are the only option for player refining, will it be required to nerf it down to NPC station levels? Will citadels be forced to have the same research and manufacturing bonuses that NPC stations (don't) have instead of the POS research style of bonuses, because to do otherwise would cause a non level playing field?

And on a side note, citadel trading is beneficial to the new trader, because you only require a single Rank 2 skill (Accounting) to be able to compete against everyone else in a citadel. As compared to the current system which requires Accounting, Broker Relations, and a slew of social skills, along with either a very extended period of grinding station standings or paying hundreds of millions to several billion for a standings grinding service.

First off, the existence of the gambling site shows that rich players already can exist without citadels. Secondly, they spent 1.2 trillion isk, left very little lasting damage and at best managed to get rid of a bunch of the more carebear members of our alliance (mostly ex-renters). That's actually a far better example of how having isk doesn't mean you can just roflstomp whoever you please, no matter how much time you spend making dank memes and bad propaganda.

By definition, if you reagequit an alliance because it gets attacked you are a carebear, regardless of whether or not you self-proclaim your greatness.

Completely agree. NPC space is the beating heart of 0.0. It keeps the game from stagnating. It provides daily content, risk, and fun. It gives groups a place to start and a place to recover.