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No as usual you prefer no-one can respond to the crap you reply with - Too many quotes - Again big surprise, the troll with all the answers has none so multi quotes - Again you didn't respond in any meaningful way - Just side stepped everything that was posed to you.


Lol the issue that you can't reply without selecting certain sentences to quote and leaving out the major part - You have no answers for the questions posed you so throw off by splitting others posts and replying to the bit that you can make up a reasonable load of shite about.
Never really addressing things put to you is a talent - One widely practiced by the best of your kind on the forums - Budding trolls use your posts as training guides.

Those sly insults and passive aggressive comments....

Could you just say what you both think without sniping at each other.

There's really no need to cram the thread with "OH BUT I DISAGREE WITH EVERY POINT AND I MUST REPEAT MY DISAGREEMENT 5 TIMES".

I mean, what exactly did those last 5 comments provide that the previous 10 didn't?

Sorry Lucas,



:D

PI and citadels are actually quite similar you have even described it but don’t seem to realize it.

PI:
Initially little to no competition for what would become PI products. There were NPC sell orders and prices were uniform. About the only thing you could do was gank the NPC convoys and they’d drop items that are now largely the result of what is now PI. I can’t recall if you could put them on the market though, sorry I used to do that like 7 years ago and I actually didn’t sell them, I used them.

Now there is a crap ton of competition and despite claims about “breaking the economy”, etc. the economy chugged right along just fine.

NPC stations:
Now there is no competition in NPC space really. You can’t do anything about a person using an NPC station. You can’t keep them from docking, and your ability to do something about that station is non-existent. You can shoot the station, but you’ll do no damage and the sentry guns will likely drive you off the field and even if they don’t not that not doing any damage part means you’re back to doing…well nothing.

Oh, when a group in NS wanted to invade in the old days (pre-fatigue/jump nerf) you’d saddle up your carriers and other capitals and deploy to NPC stations. I have deployed to Fountain core (NPC space), Blood raider stations (NPC space), SoE stations (NPC space), and even Gruista (NPC space) stations during deployments in the past. Why? Because the people we were fighting could not flip the stations and either lock our stuff in/out. That raises another point, NPC space is not just HS, it is all types of space (except WHs). So you are not even talking about NPC space, but HS and HS alone.

And again, the primary differences will still be there: Concord, NPC stations (although less attractive), missions, and the major trade hubs. I don’t care what anyone says, the major trade hubs will still be in HS.

As for competition in HS, dude it is 100% competitive, IMO except in 2 instances. This competition is just not always with the barrel of a gun, laser, or a launcher. If two or more guys show up in a belt they are competing for the ore/ice in that belt. Same thing with trade and price competition for both buy and sell orders. Then there are the more overt forms of competition, war decs and ganking. About the only things that does not have competition are mission agents and NPC stations. Those are best categorized as public goods. My use of an agent in no way diminishes your use, and I cannot stop you from using an agent (non-rivalrous and non-excludability in consumption). One could make similar statements about NPC stations. They are public goods. As such competition for them is minimal. So this notion that there is not 100% competition in HS is the exception. There is lots of competition, but different form LS and NS. But this is the direction the game has been going since the beginning. But it will never be 100% so long as there are missions and NPC stations. There is a third case where there is little or no competition and that is when there are NPC sell orders which effectively make supply perfectly elastic--i.e. there is an infnite amount of supply which determines the price and demand alone determines the quantity, however I don't even know if there are still NPC sell orders aside from skills and a few other niche items.

And here is a thought…competition makes things better. We see it in sports. We see it in economies. Why should it not hold for an MMO? Why should it not hold for HS?

That post was a joke, it's a quote from another thread he posted in :).

Edit: Teckos, I'm going to respond, but right now I'm trying to go all Homeworld on the test server and it's awesome.

Good lord, if it's going to make you so damn salty I'll post a single post for you just this once. See how well I'm adapting to other players? Good of me huh?

I don't need to go back and check anything, I know what was posted. Your point was "waah, contracts don't exist and people can't possible haul their own stuff". Everything else was just salt. You're getting upset over a change because you don't understand it, and I get that, but that doesn't mean that your panic attack is justified. Additionally you provide no solutions, you're just naysaying.

As for condescending, saying that players will adapt is not condescending, that's just a fact. That's what EVE players do. I run markets and I'll stand to lose billions to the changes in fees and will have to pricecheck thousands of orders to make sure I don't get smashed by the sale tax when people buy my orders. But I'll adapt and it will be fine. And if a player opens a citadel in a good location and reduces taxes, great, I'll ship some goods there and make some profit.

Sure, sometimes players don't adapt, and sometimes they even have a good reason for leaving when CCP makes terrible changes. Others however leave because they are upset that they have to put in a little effort, and those players will not be missed. These changes are largely beneficial to most players and certainly not out of reach of adapting with a little effort, so anyone leaving because citadels are coming will likely not be missed.

Nope, I'm not a troll. You are just one of these players who can't comprehend how players could possibly disagree with you, so when someone disagrees with you they must be trolling. The reality is we just hold different opinions.

Can the CFC just stop running around in circles and detracting from the most important part of these taxes?

Taxes and broker fees have been a reliable ISK sink. Now, brokerage fees will be paid to citadel owners.

CCP has removed a sink on an already inflating economy, and put the largest rate hike directly back into the pockets of citadel owners.

60+ pages of niggling and beating around the bush is more than enough. The tax rates and seeding and all the other fancy circular arguments that keep spawning are only here to keep people from discussing the core problem. The money from citadels will be going straight back into the pockets of the already-big, already-rich. If they are so well prepared to win the game, let them do it without the aid of CCP.

Cutting the knees out from under NPC markets specifically to "encourage" players' use of citadel markets is lunacy. Add that lunacy to the unabashed financial support citadels will be for large entities, and we really do have here the beginning of the end. Keep churning out pointless divergences from the point, if you like. Tell me to put on my tin foil. Attack everything but the point if you care to do so. Just quit acting like this is about ANYTHING besides CCP removing an ISK sink and putting that money back into the hands of the blue doughnut.

Actually I did post the perfect solution some time ago - CCP stop designing for the elitists and not release new features until they are complete.

The difference between you and I as you just pointed out - You may lose billions in fees with this change, while my whole inventory is only worth a few billion - Enough with my other isk making activities to sub a couple of accounts with plex if my trades go well for the month. These new taxes will likely see another account go inactive. No big deal to you or anyone else but it is to me, I like playing the game how I do. CCP is continually making that harder and harder to do. EG; having to let one more account go inactive adds at least 4 hours to my isk making every week as I will be down 2 cyno alts so have to move two of those I have left twice just to complete a trip.

My current goal was to get a Hell to complete my collection of Minni ships, guess that goes on hold now.
I have no aspirations to become a trillionare in Eve, I'm just not that committed to it anymore. CCP have done a pretty good job lowering my expectations of Eve and what I want to achieve in the last few years.

NB; As a player who derives isk by running courier contracts to and from markets, if citadels aren't up to scratch at release, I stand to lose a significant part of my income. A lot of the players I haul for have already indicated they will no longer be trading as they do now as it won't be profitable.

Its not that you disagree with me, you outright say I am wrong - You have no idea what it is like to have to decide whether to join a fleet (which is why I play eve) and risk losing a ship or reducing the risk by not joining it so that you can buy next months plex.
Your opinion on this whole change is based on your wallet, not that of the average player. What was the last average estimate, each player in Eve has 600 mil liquid isk?
Step back, look at your wallet (with 1 bil isk in it) as if you need to make enough isk each month to plex your accounts.

Why? So taxes and fees go up and trading becomes unprofitable?

This has been said so many times with changes to the game, "Oh you just broke the economy!!!!" and yet amazingly here it is.

No-one is saying they should scrap citadels, just make the benefits available to all of eve and not just particular groups. As I said in an earlier post, there is no reason a medium or large pos couldn't be used as a market hub in certain areas, other than CCP wants the large rich groups to have that monopoly.

:- Rushing to get Citadels out just because they have said they will is not a good enough reason. Delay the launch until it can be done as a complete feature. If there is a reason they can't put contracting in at release it is a reason to delay the launch.
Or at least give a timeline players can plan around.

Yes it may well be a knee jerk reaction but like many of the same before - This will again change the way I play eve. I already spend far more time doing mundane activities than I like and it seems with each new change those tasks take longer and or the reward is lowered.

Eve may still pass as a sandbox for the rich but for the average player it is becoming more and more a game of hours doing the mundane boring activities with a few minutes of fun.