These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Structure fitting in the EVE: Citadel Expansion

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#321 - 2016-02-25 15:58:43 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
..........................

I'm pretty sure it's intended to be added in in the future to allow Citadels to take over the role of POCOs. It was mentioned back in the original devblog first discussing the new Structures:
Quote:
They will also take over the role of Customs Offices, if placed near planets.
..................


Thanks for share and refreshing my memory.

I was just thinking, we as much PI as these things are going to take, it would be nice to have some update to the system to make it not so mind numbing.


And me too - happy to be wrong and, re-reading the quote I now do sort of remember that now...

However, I'm still rather surprised! For just the reasons you mention.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Jinrai Tremaine
Cheese It Inc
#322 - 2016-02-25 23:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinrai Tremaine
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Edward Olmops wrote:
I have another question about Citadels:

In a previous blog "Building your citadel..." there were some tables regarding the material composition of the new Citadels.
I am stuck there.

"Structure hull composition (by raw materials)"
That one does not fit with the component bill of materials.

Example:
the chart says "a Large citadel hull will contain a total of 452 Broadcast Nodes".
But the bill of materials for the hull lists 40 Station Market Networks which - according to the first table - need 15 Broadcas Nodes each!
That's 40*15=600 Broadcast Nodes from the market networks alone. Definitely more than 452.

I checked a few more and got totally different numbers (~3700 vs ~4900 P4 things total for a large hull, that's a significant difference).


Am I missing something?
Someone please clarify.


Fixed material sheet. Link here.


Hi CCP Ytterbium, I hope you're still looking at this thread. I was spreadsheeting out Citadel production requirements when I ran into a bit of a snag - you've said Link here has the correct raw materials required for each hull size, but I'm finding that those raw material numbers either don't match up with the requirements for each component listed here or with the required components for each hull size listed here.

The numbers actually match up fine for the Medium citadel, the Large is very slightly off, but the XL citadel raw materials seem to be nearly twice what the components should require. Can you clarify which sets of figures are correct, and if the raw materials have changed then what the new plans are for materials for components or components for hulls?

If it helps at all, here are the numbers I'm getting for each citadel based on the component requirements listed in the Building Your Citadel devblog: Citadel Materials.

Edit to add: I'm also curious - will the structure components still require fuel blocks now that structure fuel blocks aren't being added? If so, will any fuel block work for the components, or will certain components require specific types of fuel block?
Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
#323 - 2016-02-26 16:47:28 UTC
Saw some postings about XL Citadels in high sec.

Correct me if I am wrong, but did they not say a long time ago that XL Citadels were NOT going to be allowed in high sec. Did they say differently recently?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#324 - 2016-02-26 16:57:14 UTC
Destiny Dain2 wrote:
Saw some postings about XL Citadels in high sec.

Correct me if I am wrong, but did they not say a long time ago that XL Citadels were NOT going to be allowed in high sec. Did they say differently recently?

It's in the devblog.. all areas of space including high sec

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Octavious0506
Rock Crushers
#325 - 2016-02-28 17:10:55 UTC
So I have not seen it anywhere, so what is going to happen to all those POSes in space when Citadel is released?
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#326 - 2016-02-28 19:30:25 UTC
Octavious0506 wrote:
So I have not seen it anywhere, so what is going to happen to all those POSes in space when Citadel is released?


Nothing.

Not for a while at least.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#327 - 2016-02-29 06:04:38 UTC
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
Presumably that would come with some significant limitations beyond simply needing to be near the planet - possibly they'd have to be on-grid with the warpin, for example, plus maybe they'd require the citadel to allow public access - I can't imagine it'd be CCP's intent to completely lock out anyone but the citadel owners from doing PI on a planet for hisec at the very least, hopefully not for the rest of EVE either.

Mmm, killing super citadels in highsec

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#328 - 2016-02-29 15:20:28 UTC
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
Stuff


We are both correct. That's because we increased building requirement for the Keepstar (XL) by 2 since the first blog was listed. It now costs around 135b ISK to build. Blueprint cost will stay the same at pointed in the original blog though, around 700b ISK.
Jinrai Tremaine
Cheese It Inc
#329 - 2016-02-29 15:48:16 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
Stuff


We are both correct. That's because we increased building requirement for the Keepstar (XL) by 2 since the first blog was listed. It now costs around 135b ISK to build. Blueprint cost will stay the same at pointed in the original blog though, around 700b ISK.

I thought that might be the case, especially since the numbers only disagreed for the XL rather than the other citadels

Any chance you can share what the new plan is for the actual station components needed to build the XL? The PI/mineral requirements aren't exactly double what they are based on the original blog, so I'm guessing the component requirements are a little different from 2x what they were.

Also, any updates on whether or not fuel blocks will still be required to build components, and if so how that will work with the 4 types of blocks?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#330 - 2016-03-04 04:13:26 UTC
Are the Citadels (& Other structures) also intended to be immune to Missile Disruption?
Opner Dresden
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#331 - 2016-03-06 03:14:16 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
Stuff


We are both correct. That's because we increased building requirement for the Keepstar (XL) by 2 since the first blog was listed. It now costs around 135b ISK to build. Blueprint cost will stay the same at pointed in the original blog though, around 700b ISK.


What possible reason could you have for doing this? The things were already vastly overpriced to begin with.

Pricing at this level only promises to reserve these for the power blocs and RMT retards of eve.
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#332 - 2016-03-06 16:15:27 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Tyranis Marcus wrote:
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Tyranis Marcus wrote:
So it sounds like fuel block costs will be going up with the stront addition, so the current poses will become more expensive to operate. Will the fuel consumption on those be reduced to compensate?.................


It would be kind of silly if they did - given the realistic desire to wish to encourage people to remove POSes in favour of Citadels.

Which is why, perhaps, that the 'Assembly Arrays' and 'Drilling Rigs' may need to come sooner rather than later...


Not really. Nerfing old systems to promote new ones always causes trouble.

They dont need to nerf anything.


They've already announced that they are.

Adding stront to fuel blocks nerfs the net income of every isk-making pos activity. Which pos activities aren't being moved to citadels with this release? Most of the isk making ones.

Do not run. We are your friends.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#333 - 2016-03-07 14:36:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
deleted because Imma bad.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
bp920091
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#334 - 2016-03-11 08:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: bp920091
Any adjustment or further discussion of the inclusion of the amount of stront in fuel blocks, or the refine rates of stront in current ice, or the ice composition in ice belts at all?

Right now, if i import 100% krystallos, i'm still not getting enough heavy water, as the ONLY ice that is rich enough to provide the stront needed is woefully low in HW

Current Ice Refine Numbers:

Compressed Dark Glitter:

691 HW, 1381 LO, 69 Stront

Compressed Gelidus:

345 HW, 691 LO, 104 Stront

Compressed Glare Crust:

1381 HW, 691 LO, 35 Stront

Compressed Krystallos:

173 HW, 691 LO, 173 Stront.

Please keep in mind that to get to an ice that produces ANYTHING close to enough HW to use for an actual fuel block, you'll need to use a 6 Krystallos : 5 Dark Glitter Ratio, and you still have something like a 20% EXTRA LO that you'd have.

TLDR: CCP, until you change either the drop rates of Stront from ice, or decrease the Stront that goes into the blocks by another 50%, you are causing a massive problem with the supply of a COMMON item, needed for the stable prices for the entire T2 market.
Circumstantial Evidence
#335 - 2016-03-14 17:48:25 UTC
The stront change, fairly mild atm, but with plans to increase requirements in fuel blocks at a later date, has led to a speculation frenzy on the market. Traders can't buy enough of the stuff and mark it up fast enough.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#336 - 2016-03-15 20:55:01 UTC
Aryth wrote:
When you iterate on the refine. Keep in mind the current bonus's are much larger in null and even that isn't enough to see much refining.


It seems to me that thats your alliance/corp/recruitment issue rather than a game mechanic issue. You got a massive boost to refining yields not so long ago, please stop whining for more and more all the time.

If you need more minerals come and put one in my system and i'll use it, it would have to be worthwhile though :)

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#337 - 2016-03-16 19:00:00 UTC
Citadel Construction is not fun!

here's why

it takes several components already to build the hull.. components which should have some type of feature by default. instead you must make additional modules to have said feature. isn't this a problem?

so lets say a citadel requires :

station factory -- whats this for manufacturing?? yet we need to make a manufacturing module along with this...

station hangar array -- ccp didn't require us a citadel mod for this obvious one.

station laboratory --- research component?? yet we still must make research module just to research when we just made the lab? makes sense right??

station market network -- the large takes 40 units of this.....but still we must make additional market mod to have a market

station medical center ---- clone service component......yet we'll need a clone module to use it.

station office center ---- required to make for offices.... yet also needs another module to make to use it

station repair facility ----- repair service..... yet requires its own module???

station reprocessing plant --- another component...although you need a mod to use it.. i guess those components do something else right???
station storage bay ----- we're unlimited.... no mod needed..

structure advertisement nexus --- advertise what exactly? what is this component feature and it doesn't require a mod to use.

seems not exactly lined up to make sense but hey... its an isk sink and i wonder just how many few will be able to afford replacing them when they blow up.

ccp you're about to ruin this game and drive it straight into the ground.
Circumstantial Evidence
#338 - 2016-03-17 18:33:21 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Citadel Construction is not fun!
here's why
it takes several components already to build the hull.. components which should have some type of feature by default. instead you must make additional modules to have said feature. isn't this a problem?
I think "not logical" is a better word for what you describe. I see the point, but don't fully agree. With some imagination, I can make the lore fit. An empty house includes various rooms dedicated for specific purposes, and subsystems, such as pipes or wiring - before modular appliances, fixtures, furniture designed for that room are installed.

For one example, I think of a "station medical center" building component as a prefab structural section containing wiring, plumbing, and supporting subsystems necessary for installation of a cloning bay.

I had a good laugh over this article with a similar twist, on Crossing Zebras. How many cows does it take to build a large citadel? lol. This "not-really-a-problem" question can be asked about every module and structure that uses PI materials.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#339 - 2016-03-18 14:09:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Reposted from TEST forums:

Soldarius wrote:
Seems CCP still hasn't listened to us regarding the material requirements for the T2 XL citadel rigs. Some of these are never going to be built simply because the entire universal supply of T2 salvage is less than what is required to build just one of them. Not to mention the cost.

X-Large Doomsday Application, Projection, and Targeting II (Rig) requirements:

225000 Telemetry Processors. cost: 15,213,384,000. Universal Supply: 32k.
1200 Intact Shield Emitters. cost: 472,062,108
30000 Lorentz Fluid. cost: 3,082,214,400
30000 Power Conduits. cost: 6,025,942,800
1200 Single-crystal Superalloy I-beams. cost: 572,518,476
225000 Drone Transceivers. cost: 13,290,378,750. Universal Supply: 85k
225000 Artificial Neural Networks. cost: 2,069,064,000. Universal Supply: 372k
30000 Impetus Consoles. cost: 4,214,066,400
30000 Conductive Thermoplastic. cost: 4,744,433,700
1200 Enhanced Ward Consoles. cost: 4,959,152,748
1 R.A.M. - Weapon Tech. cost: negligable.

Total cost: 39,445,049,766. Roughly the same as a supercarrier.


Item values are volume weighted and then averaged using 5% sell and buy prices in The Forge. Supply numbers taken directly from www.eve-markets.net

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#340 - 2016-03-18 14:53:48 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Reposted from TEST forums:
.................
Total cost: 39,445,049,766. Roughly the same as a supercarrier.


.............[/quote]

TBH that figure for an XL T2 rig is not entirely unexpected - we have had plenty of indication that the 'rigs would be the expensive and destructible' element in Citadels - particularly to discourage taking them down again too easily for little cost. As an XL Hull is 135b.....

For a hull, that's double a Super's price actually.

Overall I might suggest that half that amount would be reasonable - but it depends how much the disincentive to take Citadels back down should be.

Moreover - if that T2 rig will enable an XL to one-shot a Titan - perhaps entirely reasonable.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium