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[news] Caldari Navy intercepts Guristas convoy in Black Rise
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Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1 - 2016-03-16 17:36:36 UTC
Interesting news recently of an unknown group coming to the aid of the Caldari Navy against a Guristas convoy.

I also admittedly find Wing Commander Korrado's comments as to the unknown party 'operating illegally,' given that low-security space is subject to extremely limited controls. Perhaps this indicates that the group in question wasn't in fact Capsuleer, but was a baseliner group? While we're given freedom of movement, I assume baseliners are subject to more stringent controls...?

Thoughts, pilots?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#2 - 2016-03-16 17:41:57 UTC
Contrary to your statement lowsec does, infact, still have lots of rules in regards to Capsuleer engagement. The issue isn't that said rules exist, but rather that without CONCORD patrols enforcing them, they're routinely ignored. A Criminally flagged pilot is still a Criminal.

But to get back to the point, I too find this affair curious. I wouldn't be so fast to discount possible Capsuleer involvement however, in light of the above.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-03-16 17:49:00 UTC
You find this "curious?"

"An abridged report on the destruction of the convoy which was provided alongside the statement from the Caldari Navy contained details of a number of frigate and cruiser class escort vessels, as well as two Charon-class freighters loaded with clone reanimation units and medical equipment, all of which was destroyed. It is believed that an estimated four thousand Guristas personnel were killed in the assault, including medical and security staff along with crew and passengers."

The State just f*cking murdered FOUR THOUSAND people in a medical convoy and you find it "curious?"

This sh*t ain't over. not by a damn sight!




“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#4 - 2016-03-16 17:53:48 UTC
Quote:
It is believed that an estimated four thousand Guristas personnel were killed in the assault, including medical and security staff along with crew and passengers.

I am sure detaining the said Charons instead of shredding them to pieces would've helped the investigation.

Can't say I feel too sympathetic towards Guristas, but still, freighters are mostly defenseless. I am more than sure that the Navy is able to apprehend a bunch of doctors and passengers.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#5 - 2016-03-16 18:04:04 UTC
At the same time, Utari, the pilots who came to the aid of the Caldari Navy, to our knowledge, had not engaged in any criminal acts. They were engaging known pirates. Criminal flagging in this case would only occur if the unknowns had engaged unflagged pilots, and they very explicitly did not engage the CN vessels.

So-- how were they operating illegally, if they were unknown parties? Was it lack of CISC transponders, then?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2016-03-16 18:06:34 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:

So-- how were they operating illegally, if they were unknown parties? Was it lack of CISC transponders, then?

Maybe just a gang of mercs or bounty hunters. Plenty of them out there and they all know what money they can get for getting rid of known pirates.

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Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#7 - 2016-03-16 18:06:56 UTC
Millions die every day in the cluster to one **** up or the next. These people were employees of a known Criminal organisation. Their lives were already forfeit when they took up the jobs and I'm sure they knew it. As for the medical equipment, let me guess they were going to use it to cure Vitoxin or treat some poor orphans right?

No, they were carrying clone tech, which implies something akin to them wanting to create clones for pilots or ground troops. I for one applaud the Caldari Navy for successfully putting a dent into that particular plan.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#8 - 2016-03-16 18:08:30 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Millions die every day in the cluster to one **** up or the next. These people were employees of a known Criminal organisation. Their lives were already forfeit when they took up the jobs and I'm sure they knew it. As for the medical equipment, let me guess they were going to use it to cure Vitoxin or treat some poor orphans right?

No, they were carrying clone tech, which implies something akin to them wanting to create clones for pilots or ground troops. I for one applaud the Caldari Navy for successfully putting a dent into that particular plan.

Plenty of bad things happen every second. Being aware of such acts means you are aware of the problem and is a first step on the way of not being a part of it.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#9 - 2016-03-16 18:10:56 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
At the same time, Utari, the pilots who came to the aid of the Caldari Navy, to our knowledge, had not engaged in any criminal acts. They were engaging known pirates. Criminal flagging in this case would only occur if the unknowns had engaged unflagged pilots, and they very explicitly did not engage the CN vessels.

So-- how were they operating illegally, if they were unknown parties? Was it lack of CISC transponders, then?


Often with military operations, you tend to stop unknown parties getting involved. Even if they might be a help, by not being part pf your command and control they can also be a hinderance. Further, as you are painfully aware under CONCORD laws of salvage, it's likely the Navy made claim to the assets inside the Charons. If Capsuleers were trying to "help" destroy the freighters to take the cloning tech outside of the Navy's permission, then that would be an illegal action in my opinion.

In short, unless you were invited to the party, don't gate crash on the Navy.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#10 - 2016-03-16 18:12:56 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
Millions die every day in the cluster to one **** up or the next. These people were employees of a known Criminal organisation. Their lives were already forfeit when they took up the jobs and I'm sure they knew it. As for the medical equipment, let me guess they were going to use it to cure Vitoxin or treat some poor orphans right?

No, they were carrying clone tech, which implies something akin to them wanting to create clones for pilots or ground troops. I for one applaud the Caldari Navy for successfully putting a dent into that particular plan.

Plenty of bad things happen every second. Being aware of such acts means you are aware of the problem and is a first step on the way of not being a part of it.



And publically and openly broadcasting locations of towers so it's easy for pirates to third party rescue efforts is really avoiding being part of the problem too, right?

Way to miss the rest of my point about these being employees of a criminal organisation as well. These people were part of a problem. They were removed and became part of a problem no longer.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2016-03-16 18:32:02 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Millions die every day in the cluster to one **** up or the next. These people were employees of a known Criminal organisation. Their lives were already forfeit when they took up the jobs and I'm sure they knew it. As for the medical equipment, let me guess they were going to use it to cure Vitoxin or treat some poor orphans right?

No, they were carrying clone tech, which implies something akin to them wanting to create clones for pilots or ground troops. I for one applaud the Caldari Navy for successfully putting a dent into that particular plan.



If the State engaged a Federation civilian convoy, killing several thousand people, the leaders of that force would be brought to trial for war crimes. But when the State does it to a "Criminal Organization," this is acceptable to you because they knew the risks when they signed on?

Obviously, no one here has any moral high ground to stand on, but I find it curious that you rail so loudly against the actions of someone like Nauplius, but when an ally of the Empire engages in a similar atrocity, it's acceptable.

Curious indeed.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#12 - 2016-03-16 18:35:18 UTC
Nauplius kills innocents and needs to be purged

The Gurristas kill millions more innocents and engage in activities that harm the Empire and the State. They too need to be purged.

I make no apologies for this.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-03-16 18:44:24 UTC
My thought?

Don't put your nose into Caldari business, dishonorable liar Makoto.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#14 - 2016-03-16 18:59:57 UTC
Turning Guris into a few light-second long smears in space is an atrocity now? Well then. If that is an atrocity, I wonder where the actions of Guris, Angels, Serps, Blooders and Sansha falls on the scale, because there's frankly not much room on the other side of 'atrocity' to work with.
Tyrukko Sakala
Guri Raiders
#15 - 2016-03-16 19:01:15 UTC
Rook Moray wrote:
You find this "curious?"

"An abridged report on the destruction of the convoy which was provided alongside the statement from the Caldari Navy contained details of a number of frigate and cruiser class escort vessels, as well as two Charon-class freighters loaded with clone reanimation units and medical equipment, all of which was destroyed. It is believed that an estimated four thousand Guristas personnel were killed in the assault, including medical and security staff along with crew and passengers."

The State just f*cking murdered FOUR THOUSAND people in a medical convoy and you find it "curious?"

This sh*t ain't over. not by a damn sight!






I find this ironic considering what the guri do on a regular basis.

Guri Raiders Pirate // Don't want to get your hands dirty? Drop a line.
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#16 - 2016-03-16 19:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinti Vailatti
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Turning Guris into a few light-second long smears in space is an atrocity now? Well then. If that is an atrocity, I wonder where the actions of Guris, Angels, Serps, Blooders and Sansha falls on the scale, because there's frankly not much room on the other side of 'atrocity' to work with.



Just sayin, but if it were Matari lives, you'd be singing a different song.

And U/K are just as criminal as the Guris.



So the State are just as bad as everyone else. How is this news?

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2016-03-16 19:39:20 UTC
Considering all the military uses of cloning technology, it seems like the difference between "medical staff" and "ordinance technician" is narrowing in certain places to whether the ordinance talks when in use.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2016-03-16 19:54:41 UTC
No tears when a Security operation takes out known criminals.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#19 - 2016-03-16 20:06:17 UTC
To be honest, I'd say more unarmed ships are destroyed on the trade lines in secure space on a daily basis than this operation cost. Perhaps it's callous of me, but I can't find myself to make much of the loss of life, compared to the death toll we ignore on a daily basis.

While medical personnel aren't an ideal target, I doubt the Caldari Navy knew what the cargo was until after; they were simply engaging a Guristas logistics convoy.

What's more noteworthy are the unknown pilots, their discipline, and how exactly they were 'operating illegally,' given that they had not engaged the navy. Admittedly, the argument that operating near the navy in a combat situation is a legitimate grounds for engagement would be fair, were Capsuleers not given such wide latitude for travel without interference.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#20 - 2016-03-16 20:19:06 UTC
"And in Regional news, The Caldari Navy does their job...."
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