These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Last straw I'm afraid. A potentially long-term player just cant see when the fun starts.

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#41 - 2012-01-11 01:10:24 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:

Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?

"Warning, you're going to a lowsec system and CONCORD won't be there to protect you." Or something along those lines, haven't had that warning on in YEARS (well, save for when I reinstall the client due to a new PC or something ... but it dies soon thereafter).

Forgetting I turned that warning off is how my freighter jumped into in a 0.4 system by accident. Shocked

I was soooooo lucky to get out alive.

Now I always remember to reset it when I intend to stay in hisec for a while.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-01-11 01:29:35 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:

Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?

"Warning, you're going to a lowsec system and CONCORD won't be there to protect you." Or something along those lines, haven't had that warning on in YEARS (well, save for when I reinstall the client due to a new PC or something ... but it dies soon thereafter).

Forgetting I turned that warning off is how my freighter jumped into in a 0.4 system by accident. Shocked

I was soooooo lucky to get out alive.

Now I always remember to reset it when I intend to stay in hisec for a while.


Needs a reverse warning too as I got a horrible surprise when I was hammered one night Shocked

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Velicitia
XS Tech
#43 - 2012-01-11 13:46:55 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:

Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?

"Warning, you're going to a lowsec system and CONCORD won't be there to protect you." Or something along those lines, haven't had that warning on in YEARS (well, save for when I reinstall the client due to a new PC or something ... but it dies soon thereafter).

Forgetting I turned that warning off is how my freighter jumped into in a 0.4 system by accident. Shocked

I was soooooo lucky to get out alive.

Now I always remember to reset it when I intend to stay in hisec for a while.


Needs a reverse warning too as I got a horrible surprise when I was hammered one night Shocked


Ganked someone in a 0.5? Big smile

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Diva Ex Machina
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-01-12 09:48:22 UTC
Blackavar Sul wrote:


...
I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.


I am also a fairly new player so I can relate to your frustration. I tend to find though, that games that are easy and intuitive to get into have a relatively short life span because I get bored with them quickly. Eve is different in that respect because I can see that it's going to take me months if not years to work out all the subtle ins and outs. Rather than getting angry about it, I prefer to regard it as a plus. I highly recommend joining a noob friendly corp to make the learning process easier and more fun.

Regarding your specific complaint about not getting everything you need to do the tutorials, I found that opening up help and clicking through all the topics sometimes got me skill books or modules that weren't given by the tutorial mission itself. Somehow I must have missed those during the 'crash course'.

Feel free to drop me a message in game if you want and good luck. I hope you stick around. :o)
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-01-12 10:48:47 UTC
First of all, a lot of pilots go through the stage where they think EVE is just to hard and not fun. This is mainly cause of the learning curve EVE has, it's best displayed on the following picture:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1

Once you get over the the initial barrier EVE becomes more fun.

I also suggest to do what you like and evolve from there, this usually means you join a player corp that does stuff you like to do (mining corp for miners, mission corp for mission runners, etc. etc.) but don't be afraid to find out the corp you joined isn't really the corp you want to stick around with, you can always move on to another corp.

My main suggestion on player corps is: Do your research (yes more looking at websites etc P).
Most corps have a public/recruitment channel in which you can hang around to speak to others about that corp (usually recruiters are in it, some other members and sometimes even old members who stay in touch), this public channel is usually a first sign on how active the corp is, if it's empty all the time they are not active in your time-zone most of the time.
Also look into their history (alliance history, how old is the corp) and you can check their killboards and pilots on EVEwho, eve-kill and dotlan. Don't be afraid to turn down corps and most of all don't just join the first corp you encounter, take your time to find the most fitting corps.

Back to the learning curve, my main suggestion is to ask your questions.
Loads of good people hang around Rookie Help / Help channel (agree, there are some bad ones in there too) and usually the newbie corp you started in is also filled with alts of experienced players.

There is only 1 stupid question in the world, that is a question you didn't ask. Some questions you have might seem stupid to you, but likely all (or most) veteran players had that same question when they started out in EVE, so ask it anyway.
Also if you can't manage to do something alone, ask anyone to help you with (It's a MMO after all) but keep in mind EVE is a dangerous place so don't just accept anyone that jumps in when you ask for help. Try to keep track on who genuine wants to help new players.

If you ever need help with anything or have a question you can always EVEmail or open a conversation with me (usually I'm online in the Evening of EVE time (1800 - 2300 EVE time).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
CCP Legion
#46 - 2012-01-12 11:40:27 UTC
Blackavar Sul wrote:


I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.


Thanks for the constructive post, these are good to read.

Great to see you are sticking with it, even if the beginning is what it is. As many have said, the community is often the best way to get help and tips.

The new player experience is something we are taking a long hard look at now (I am part of a new team dedicated to this). Even if the tutorials give a lot of information, they don't do it in a clear, intuitive and fun way. There is a lot that can be done about them.

Do let us know whether you decide to continue :)

@CCP_Legion | Producer
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#47 - 2012-01-12 11:56:32 UTC
CCP Legion wrote:
Blackavar Sul wrote:


I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.


Thanks for the constructive post, these are good to read.

Great to see you are sticking with it, even if the beginning is what it is. As many have said, the community is often the best way to get help and tips.

The new player experience is something we are taking a long hard look at now (I am part of a new team dedicated to this). Even if the tutorials give a lot of information, they don't do it in a clear, intuitive and fun way. There is a lot that can be done about them.

Do let us know whether you decide to continue :)


Many new players don't come to the forum until after they're already angry and frustrated. Then, EVE being EVE, when they make angry and frustrated posts, they get the kind of answers we've all come to expect.

It would be a nice touch if all new players got maybe an evemail or something with forum links, plus links to some select resources like the I.S.K. Guide.

Maybe CCP could also do a competition for short essays and articles on how to start EVE, how EVE fosters a different mindset to traditional MMOs, etc. and the best of these could be included in the EVE wiki, and linked to in that greeting mail.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-01-12 12:14:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Legion wrote:
Blackavar Sul wrote:


I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.


Thanks for the constructive post, these are good to read.

Great to see you are sticking with it, even if the beginning is what it is. As many have said, the community is often the best way to get help and tips.

The new player experience is something we are taking a long hard look at now (I am part of a new team dedicated to this). Even if the tutorials give a lot of information, they don't do it in a clear, intuitive and fun way. There is a lot that can be done about them.

Do let us know whether you decide to continue :)


Many new players don't come to the forum until after they're already angry and frustrated. Then, EVE being EVE, when they make angry and frustrated posts, they get the kind of answers we've all come to expect.

It would be a nice touch if all new players got maybe an evemail or something with forum links, plus links to some select resources like the I.S.K. Guide.

Maybe CCP could also do a competition for short essays and articles on how to start EVE, how EVE fosters a different mindset to traditional MMOs, etc. and the best of these could be included in the EVE wiki, and linked to in that greeting mail.


Totally agree with this. More help for new EVE players would be nice, not saying CCP should hold their hand while they learn EVE. But a small nudge into the right direction means people learn EVE in a more happy and easy way which in terms means they will likely stick around longer. When I started EVE I felt like running into a brick wall of information (the amount of topics you find when using google is huge and some of the topics contradict eachother) so a welcome mail to new players with some directions on where to look for certain things (EVE wiki, recruitment channels, Rookie help / help channels, EVE forums etc.) would be nice.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-01-12 16:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: My Neutral Toon
When you sign up for a new account there is DISCLAIMER THAT SAYS EVE IS HARD!!!!



The OP seems to be mad that Eve is a hard game to play. \



BYE o/

go back to WoW


If this game were easy to master in the first week, you are right, there would be a LOT more subscribers.... And a lot more idiots running around in game. The markets would be flooded and highsec would be like watching a bunch of monkeys trying to f*** the same football....

EVE IS HARD! EVE IS A HOBBY, NOT A GAME!

How many people do you know that have a hobby that is easy and they mastered it ina week? People spend years on their hobbies, and people spend years mastering this game.

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-01-12 16:49:50 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Legion wrote:
Blackavar Sul wrote:


I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.


Thanks for the constructive post, these are good to read.

Great to see you are sticking with it, even if the beginning is what it is. As many have said, the community is often the best way to get help and tips.

The new player experience is something we are taking a long hard look at now (I am part of a new team dedicated to this). Even if the tutorials give a lot of information, they don't do it in a clear, intuitive and fun way. There is a lot that can be done about them.

Do let us know whether you decide to continue :)


Many new players don't come to the forum until after they're already angry and frustrated. Then, EVE being EVE, when they make angry and frustrated posts, they get the kind of answers we've all come to expect.

It would be a nice touch if all new players got maybe an evemail or something with forum links, plus links to some select resources like the I.S.K. Guide.

Maybe CCP could also do a competition for short essays and articles on how to start EVE, how EVE fosters a different mindset to traditional MMOs, etc. and the best of these could be included in the EVE wiki, and linked to in that greeting mail.


Totally agree with this. More help for new EVE players would be nice, not saying CCP should hold their hand while they learn EVE. But a small nudge into the right direction means people learn EVE in a more happy and easy way which in terms means they will likely stick around longer. When I started EVE I felt like running into a brick wall of information (the amount of topics you find when using google is huge and some of the topics contradict eachother) so a welcome mail to new players with some directions on where to look for certain things (EVE wiki, recruitment channels, Rookie help / help channels, EVE forums etc.) would be nice.




While CCP could help matters along. There are a TON, i mean a TON of corporations DEDICATED to helping new players. some of them are 100 members strong. They hold their hands through everything from mining and manufacturing, to mission running and PvP. It's not CCP's fault the OP had a hard time learning EVE. Everyone in the MMO world knows EVE is a very hard game to learn and play. But once you actually dedicate a little time to learning the game, its extremely fun and addictive.

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-01-12 17:01:32 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
My Neutral Toon wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Legion wrote:
Blackavar Sul wrote:


I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.


Thanks for the constructive post, these are good to read.

Great to see you are sticking with it, even if the beginning is what it is. As many have said, the community is often the best way to get help and tips.

The new player experience is something we are taking a long hard look at now (I am part of a new team dedicated to this). Even if the tutorials give a lot of information, they don't do it in a clear, intuitive and fun way. There is a lot that can be done about them.

Do let us know whether you decide to continue :)


Many new players don't come to the forum until after they're already angry and frustrated. Then, EVE being EVE, when they make angry and frustrated posts, they get the kind of answers we've all come to expect.

It would be a nice touch if all new players got maybe an evemail or something with forum links, plus links to some select resources like the I.S.K. Guide.

Maybe CCP could also do a competition for short essays and articles on how to start EVE, how EVE fosters a different mindset to traditional MMOs, etc. and the best of these could be included in the EVE wiki, and linked to in that greeting mail.


Totally agree with this. More help for new EVE players would be nice, not saying CCP should hold their hand while they learn EVE. But a small nudge into the right direction means people learn EVE in a more happy and easy way which in terms means they will likely stick around longer. When I started EVE I felt like running into a brick wall of information (the amount of topics you find when using google is huge and some of the topics contradict eachother) so a welcome mail to new players with some directions on where to look for certain things (EVE wiki, recruitment channels, Rookie help / help channels, EVE forums etc.) would be nice.




While CCP could help matters along. There are a TON, i mean a TON of corporations DEDICATED to helping new players. some of them are 100 members strong. They hold their hands through everything from mining and manufacturing, to mission running and PvP. It's not CCP's fault the OP had a hard time learning EVE. Everyone in the MMO world knows EVE is a very hard game to learn and play. But once you actually dedicate a little time to learning the game, its extremely fun and addictive.


The problem here is that the whole tutorials and other stuff never mention how you can find player runned corporations. If one of the tutorials would be to open the corp search function or tell you how to subscribe to different chat channels (the speech balloon thing) I totally agree with you. But at the moment new players aren't showed how, instead of this they have to read through a whole army of pop up screen Aura throws at you, some of which are utterly useless while others are indeed important. All this creates is a new player fed up with the pop-ups and automatically clicks any pop ups away instead of reading the ones that really matter.

My suggestion on tutorial stands:

1.) Less reading of an army of pop ups, more directions in how to actually achieve goals.
2.) Beside the basics as they are explained now, maybe also teach people things that are totally forgotten atm (even if it is only by showing them a small video on how to do it, finally something useful on that big screen TV in my CQ
3.) A welcome mail for all new subscribers with a list of do and don'ts and some useful links.

EDIT: I'm not saying this from the OPs point of view. The OP in this matter thanks all that happens to him from own bad decisions and his own attitude towards EVE Online, he thinks he can master a Navy Scorp in less then 3 weeks and thinks throwing money to buy expensive ship makes you invulnerable.

I just started a 60-day trial and also helped a lot of new players in rookie help, and in generals the tutorials give a bad view on EVE (they hardly explain stuff, usually Aura tells you something and either way you have to do all research yourself as all Aura says makes no sense to a new player yet). So in general to benefit EVE online and new player the whole tutorials should be redone to actually act as tutorials.

J'Poll

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#52 - 2012-01-13 20:59:59 UTC
TBH I only skimmed over the wall of text, sorry if I missed the finer points, but your post seemed to center around "it seems like a good game, I just can't get into it because of difficulty/tutorials/complexity.

Tutorials in game I've been told have gotten much better, I ran them when they were old school, I don't remember them being that bad, but maybe that's just me. I also got into a player corp pretty fast, so that helped.

Out of game tutorials are probably better, the only problem is they are sometimes outdated too. CCP has done a number of changes and balances recently. Still, they can be very helpful.

The big one here is joining a player corp. Before you get frustrated and quite the game, join one and give it a shot. Try Eve University. If nothing else, make some friends and convo them in game when you need help. Live support from someone that knows what they are doing goes really far. If you'd like you can shoot me an evemail, or convo me if you see me online, with any questions.

As for PvP, skill points certainly help, but that doesn't mean you can't go live in 0.0 and survive. IMO it's the combat that makes this game (some agree, some don't). I find running missions all day, or mining all day, or .01 isking the market all day dull. Its like a single player grind that never has any significant change. Combat though everything is different, no one ship is all powerful on it's own. Depending on the fit you can vastly change a fight. Despite the popular sentiment, it's not all about locking the target and pressing F1-F8, there's a lot more to it if you want to get good.

And just to give an example. I had a friend join me out in 0.0 only about a month after he started. He stayed in highsec to grab some skills, run the tutorials, make sure he had the basics down. Of course he had me helping him along (again, make friends, join a corp, etc). About a week after he came out to 0.0 (so he's about 5 weeks old), he joined a major fleet fight in his borrowed drake (I loaned it to him, make friends, join a corp, etc). We took a titan bridge and joined about a 400 man fight with about 6 different major alliances participating. It's the kind of stuff I didn't see till I had been playing for a year and a half, because I took it slow. He survived by the way, had a blast, and has been hooked on the game since. You don't have to have years of skill points and experience to pvp.

I can't say it enough. Before you give up and quit the game, join a corp, make some friends, get some help.
Grakulus Silmaril
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-01-13 21:19:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Grakulus Silmaril
Blackavar Sul has been re-rolled as Grakulus Silmaril. So it's the OP hereShocked


J'Poll wrote:
I'm not saying this from the OPs point of view. The OP in this matter thanks all that happens to him from own bad decisions and his own attitude towards EVE Online, he thinks he can master a Navy Scorp in less then 3 weeks and thinks throwing money to buy expensive ship makes you invulnerable.


A bit harsh I think. I don't think that I implied any of that. I was being honest about my new-player experience. Anyway - to all the helpful people on this thread thank you, I do appreciate it very much. As it happens, I have stuck with it, started a new character after Blackavar haemorrhaged all his early cash in some horrible mistakes and I have ended up buying a three month subscription. So, I will be persevering, but with this other character.

The game has definitely got it's hooks in me. There are aspects that I am loving (the sense of scale being a major one), and there are still aspects that frustrate greatly. There are many parts of the game that I do feel should and could be explained so much better in-game so long after the game was first released. However - it's a game I can't stop thinking about so it must have many compulsive features to make up for it all.

Thank you again to all the helpful people, here and in-game. I would have packed it in by now if it wasn't for that kind of generous help.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-01-14 12:26:21 UTC
Grakulus Silmaril wrote:
Blackavar Sul has been re-rolled as Grakulus Silmaril. So it's the OP hereShocked


J'Poll wrote:
I'm not saying this from the OPs point of view. The OP in this matter thanks all that happens to him from own bad decisions and his own attitude towards EVE Online, he thinks he can master a Navy Scorp in less then 3 weeks and thinks throwing money to buy expensive ship makes you invulnerable.


A bit harsh I think. I don't think that I implied any of that. I was being honest about my new-player experience. Anyway - to all the helpful people on this thread thank you, I do appreciate it very much. As it happens, I have stuck with it, started a new character after Blackavar haemorrhaged all his early cash in some horrible mistakes and I have ended up buying a three month subscription. So, I will be persevering, but with this other character.

The game has definitely got it's hooks in me. There are aspects that I am loving (the sense of scale being a major one), and there are still aspects that frustrate greatly. There are many parts of the game that I do feel should and could be explained so much better in-game so long after the game was first released. However - it's a game I can't stop thinking about so it must have many compulsive features to make up for it all.

Thank you again to all the helpful people, here and in-game. I would have packed it in by now if it wasn't for that kind of generous help.


Found the problem and have to say sorry, dual replying to 2 different forum posts happen to have them mixed up. So again, sorry for the 'harsh' talks and using of wrong chat.

Do agree with BeanBagKing, best (and sometimes only) way to fully experience EVE Online as a MMO is by joining player corps, most NPC corp members are alts of people who need them in NPC corps for certain reasons (for instance a price check alt for someone who lives in null-sec) or for people who play this game in "single player" mode (missions or mining can be done solo).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-01-15 05:40:46 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:
ISD Athechu wrote:
As far as I am aware the modules/skill books are handed out perfectly fine. I personally have run through the initial AURA tutorials and did not have any issues. I received all the modules and skill books that AURA handouts without any issues. Please note that most of them you have to go through ALL dialog boxes in order to receive most of the materials, some of them are handed out one at a time per page.

I haven't gone through the career agents so I don't know from first hand experience the issues that might arise there. If there are issues that you notice please don't hesitate to file a petition if you feel that something is missing/wrong.

If you haven't gone through the career tutorials how can you say everything is fine?

The issue here isn't that all Aura's handouts aren't given, but that one or two career tutorials require the new player to use items not given by Aura and which aren't given anywhere else.

I'm a very meticulous person (much to the annoyance of all my RL line managers!) and went through all the mini-tutorials that pop up along the way, but I still had to buy items that hadn't been provided (leaving aside those that have to be bought as part of the tutorial learning experience).

For instance: in another thread there's mention of the fact that Aura tells you that the career tutorials can be done in any order but that if you start with Balancing the Books you can't do Mission 3 because you have no mining equipment. I mistakenly replied to that thread by saying the rookie ship's civilian miner could be used, forgetting that although I started with that tutorial I already knew of the repackage/re-assemble trick and got my mining laser that way.

Did you go through all of the tutorial windows with the career agents? As you have to go through the windows to get the items that your looking for.

I think I already answered that in my post quoted above:

Ettu Brute II wrote:
I'm a very meticulous person (much to the annoyance of all my RL line managers!) and went through all the mini-tutorials that pop up along the way, but I still had to buy items that hadn't been provided (leaving aside those that have to be bought as part of the tutorial learning experience).

Mention has already been made that the business tutorial features a mining mission without providing a mining laser to do it with, but the industrial tutorial is even worse – its first mission is mining but the mining laser which the new player needs in order to do this is given as a reward for completing the mission!
Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-01-15 05:41:03 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:

Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?

"Warning, you're going to a lowsec system and CONCORD won't be there to protect you." Or something along those lines, haven't had that warning on in YEARS (well, save for when I reinstall the client due to a new PC or something ... but it dies soon thereafter).

I've made two short excursions through lowsec and didn't see anything like that on either occasion.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#57 - 2012-01-15 09:29:15 UTC
Ettu Brute II wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:

Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?

"Warning, you're going to a lowsec system and CONCORD won't be there to protect you." Or something along those lines, haven't had that warning on in YEARS (well, save for when I reinstall the client due to a new PC or something ... but it dies soon thereafter).

I've made two short excursions through lowsec and didn't see anything like that on either occasion.


Then you disabled it.

Yes you did, even if you don't remember it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#58 - 2012-01-15 09:41:39 UTC
Ettu Brute II wrote:
ISD Athechu wrote:
Ettu Brute II wrote:
ISD Athechu wrote:
As far as I am aware the modules/skill books are handed out perfectly fine. I personally have run through the initial AURA tutorials and did not have any issues. I received all the modules and skill books that AURA handouts without any issues. Please note that most of them you have to go through ALL dialog boxes in order to receive most of the materials, some of them are handed out one at a time per page.

I haven't gone through the career agents so I don't know from first hand experience the issues that might arise there. If there are issues that you notice please don't hesitate to file a petition if you feel that something is missing/wrong.

If you haven't gone through the career tutorials how can you say everything is fine?

The issue here isn't that all Aura's handouts aren't given, but that one or two career tutorials require the new player to use items not given by Aura and which aren't given anywhere else.

I'm a very meticulous person (much to the annoyance of all my RL line managers!) and went through all the mini-tutorials that pop up along the way, but I still had to buy items that hadn't been provided (leaving aside those that have to be bought as part of the tutorial learning experience).

For instance: in another thread there's mention of the fact that Aura tells you that the career tutorials can be done in any order but that if you start with Balancing the Books you can't do Mission 3 because you have no mining equipment. I mistakenly replied to that thread by saying the rookie ship's civilian miner could be used, forgetting that although I started with that tutorial I already knew of the repackage/re-assemble trick and got my mining laser that way.

Did you go through all of the tutorial windows with the career agents? As you have to go through the windows to get the items that your looking for.

I think I already answered that in my post quoted above:

Ettu Brute II wrote:
I'm a very meticulous person (much to the annoyance of all my RL line managers!) and went through all the mini-tutorials that pop up along the way, but I still had to buy items that hadn't been provided (leaving aside those that have to be bought as part of the tutorial learning experience).

Mention has already been made that the business tutorial features a mining mission without providing a mining laser to do it with, but the industrial tutorial is even worse – its first mission is mining but the mining laser which the new player needs in order to do this is given as a reward for completing the mission!


Aren't all rookie ships equipped with a civilian mining laser by default?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#59 - 2012-01-15 10:07:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Aren't all rookie ships equipped with a civilian mining laser by default?


Not if you got the rookie ship as part of the rookie tutorials.

Unless you have done the tutorials in the last year, you probably don't know that new rookies start off in their CQ with no ship. The tutorial takes them out into space, to a deadspace pocket, in which they board a pre-assembled module-free rookie ship.

At no point during the new tutorials do the rookie players ever see a rookie ship with civilian weapon and civilian mining laser. In several cases the rookie is put through tutorial situations where a presumption was made about what equipment the rookie has at their disposal. There is also an assumption that the rookie knows how to use the market, since the rookies do not start with any Industry skill, they are not granted the skill book, but the business and industry tutorials both rely on having the skill in order to run a manufacturing job.

The NPE is very poor at present, unless the rookie is aware that EVE is a hard game and has spent time on the forums from before they set up their account (much less created a character and started playing).

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Toxic Gengod
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-01-21 00:47:36 UTC
Blackavar Sul wrote:
Dear CCP.
You have made what I'm sure is a fine game and it has been successful, with what I gather is something like 400,000 people playing at one time or another. I really believe that this number could have been so many times more than that if you had made the game enjoyable for new players .

I have put about 10 days on and off into the game and it has just been one struggle after another. Every single gindingly painful step forward has been accompanied with hours spent out of the game reading forums and "beginner" guides to the game, scratching my head trying to work out if and when the game might become in any way intuitive. I have deliberately taken the game slow, moving through the initial tutorial and then when prompted starting the career agents. Even this stage of the game is a mess. I have an agent telling me I own a piece of equipment that I do not own. He tells me I got it from the "crash course". I have done everything they have asked of me and I certainly do not own that kit. So I hit f12. Cant see anything about a crash course. I do a search for it. It dosn't seem to be anything I can find within the game interface in any way. I eventually give up and sit and wonder if this game is ever going to be worth the effort. This is the sort of counter-intuitive mess I expect at launch, not many years into a successful MMO's lifespan. This is clearly just a small problem that I could probably sort out by asking on a forum and by searching elsewhere, but the problem is that I'm having to do that for so so much of the game. I'm finding myself in that situation every day.

There will be plenty of people that will say well - if you cant stand a complex game then get out of here and play something easy. But I do enjoy big complex games. I would consider myself a gamer. I have been playing videogames for 30 years. I own over 200 boardgames. I play multiple tabletop wargame systems and I would definitely consider myself someone who is ready to embrace big deep complex games. However - that also means that I expect a decent standard of gameplay out of a big MMO and EVE seems determined to make life as hard as possible for the player in so many unnessessary ways. I don't need the game to be simple, but I just wish it would't be so so obtuse.

Also - ten days into an MMO and I'm afraid I have experienced two views. The inside of my cabin, and the orangy dust clouds of space. I understand that a game set in space will be faced with this problem but the most exiting thing I've seen so far has been a dot in the distance that I have been shooting at. I have not yet encountered anything new, I have not yet encountered any other player other than to see a ship leave the space station and fly off. I'm pretty sure that if I was to head off somewhere for some PVP that would pretty quickly be the end of me. I can't see how I can encounter other players in any way other than in distant chat or in one-sided combat.

I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.