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Again, bullshit. These activities aren't basic, but considered 'end game'.

So you are of the opinion that only people who know what they are doing should sell their basic ore on the market, given that it falls under the same category as 'mining', or should not attempt to build t1 frigs, seeing that it's the same roughly as building caps, or pvp, since it's the basis of sov warfare? Not be good at it, not 'win' at it, just try and feel like they have enough information about it to decide if they want to pursue, or not.

I contend that in order to have people competing and competitive in these high end activities, they will have to have tried somewhat risk-free the basic variants and found it palatable.

Oh and by the way, all these basic things? part of the career missions and opportunities... Should be encouraged, imho, rather than 'here's all you can do, please pay to participate, whatever your level of proficiency'

EDIT:
inb4 stupideries

Now, risk free doesn't mean highly profitable. Risk free for little to no gain, so that you are tempted to risk more for more gain, obviously. But definitely not pay-to-loose.

Be my guest. As long as you want. You'll end up being all alone on this track and won't be able to gloat over anyone of your impressive achievements. But hey, kudos to you, once more, for being on top of a pile of 1.

As long as you refuse to even try debating all those things with the people that I interact with every day, you will miss the point. But hey, it doesn't impact you, so you win! Awesome, and congrats! No one is trying to take that away from you.

Which, to be honest, doesn't matter to me one bit. I don't have to convince you, because it's impossible. I have to convince people who came on the heels of 'This is Eve' and other theatrical trailers and are sorely disappointed they are being relegated to all day ratting and all day mining, because they think it's the only thing they can do.

Among all the posters here, you are among the ones that stands the least to loose. You don't gain much, either, maybe, but that's the extent of it. You can spout 4000 words a minute, it won't change a goddamn thing : your opinion is irrelevant, because you have no stake.

Guys, you're literally going in circles.

I get that you two disagree, I think the clone changes suck, I think Citadels should have some sunk costs to attract people without a return, I recognise that CCP doesn't think that, I think CCP's being silly in that case.

Can we talk about something else?

Yes, it's no wonder arguments circulate when you are absolutely positive you are right, positive you have more knowledge than the other party and sling personal attacks around when you don't get your own way. Ed: and amusingly you prove yourself wrong, which is the funniest part.

Here's the crux of it. You don't want change to impact you. Quite honestly, if you can't afford to sling a rookie 900k isk you probably shouldn't be giving them advice. You won't even put in basic effort to adapt, and you think you're the right person to guide a rookie in how to play EVE? It's laughable. Adapt of die fella.

I wonder what exspansion they are releasing billboards in...

Hmmm...

You're being stupidely argumentative again. There should be a tax on posting on forums, we'd see the volume decrease... Oh wait, probably not, because ISK (or really money) isn't an issue to anyone, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No it will not affect my ISK making. Not one bit. In any way, shape or form. It will impact what I do for the community, though, which, again, does not benefit me at all. The pilots I take on roams can't JOIN CAS, because we are a starter corp. They will, however, join other organization for some pew pew after they are convinced it's a fun activity. My gameplay of risking my own ships to kill some other players will not be affected, I'll have fun even solo.

I jump clone once a month, and that's for picking up the newbies in HS. I don't do that, I have no JC cost involved. And even if I do, I make way enough ISK to pay for ships, so yes, 900k doesn't bother me in the least.

It will impact the participation, you can bet your posting rights on that.

Pretty sure "The rich elitist groups couldn't bear it if a smaller group were able to compete with them in a player owned and run market - Obviously CCP think the same way." Was quite clear as to what I was talking about.
As I didn't quote anyone in the post you replied to, I'm unsure how you thought I was referring to anything other than what I posted.

So in your opinion a Medium Citadel which is put up as a market by a group with less isk than you isn't valuable to them and so not worth protecting.
I'm not sure just how idiotic you want to make yourself look but so far your doing a really good job at it.

Nice recovery (with a lot of help) for someone who has lost every point he posts on this topic due to being an elitist with no insight on how those not protected by Goons play the game. Shame it can't be passed off as misunderstanding.

Ahhh there it is - the elitist snob approach - You seem to like that one - If your not rich you don't deserve anything, you hold no value in the scheme of things (CCP agrees with you saldy).
You should be working for CCP, their current design trends fit your ethos perfectly - Maybe you could replace CCP Seagull as most of CCP seem to not want her road map to succeed anyway you would be a great fit for their new line of design.

Funny thing is, most games do design so expensive stuff does more but they also make it so the majority of their player base has the opportunity to use it - CCP decided to be different and deliberately exclude a large part of their paying customers from using one of the biggest new features in 10 years. So, poor design is that which excludes a fairly large group of the player base, which it seems is CCP's intent.


The real shame is, CCP stopped caring about player feedback in the Citadel threads - About 5 months ago when the last blog about Citadels was posted. (Still waiting for the update blog on capital changes, that was going to be available just after Xmas)
Not counting this one that so clearly shows CCP don't care about its players base - Unless you belong to a rich mega group.

Eve has come full circle from boring and stagnant due to blue donut blobs, to some decent activity and now heading back into stagnant due to blob monopoly. And the biggest blobs get a handout from CCP simply for being wealthy, while everyone else is meant to just suck it up.

It would be interesting to see a Dev respond to some of the issues raised in this thread - Thing is, they really can't without acknowledging Citadels are designed for the rich elitists of Eve.


NB; Lucas my suggestion would be to quit this thread before you lose what little credibility you have left.

Why can't you use a Citadel?

Picking one sentence out of a post and replying to it out of context. Clever, very clever.

Nice; Lucas you have a fan boy, he too agrees there is no place in Eve for small groups, everyone must aspire to be a goon.