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Manual Warp Controls

Author
Iain Cariaba
#21 - 2016-03-12 18:37:33 UTC
Kristian Hackett wrote:
The point behind all of this is to make combat more interesting. For once, D-Scan can be damn useful for finding a target, input manual warp, bounce over, rinse/repeat without the use of combat probes. I'd think anyone hunting in nullsec would appreciate the idea. Granted it will require a bit more paitience, but if you're flying a ship with a covert ops cloak you're probably going to want that option of not needing to announce your presence with combat probes.

Make combat more interesting? How, exactly, does that work when your idea would do nothing but enable those who don't want to lose a fight a 100% sure fire "get out of fight free" card? Suddenly every single ratting carrier has the ability to warp to literally every single spot within the sphere around the sun that CCP allows you to warp, making them virtually impossible to catch. Warp from one point 50AU from sun to 2nd point 49.5AU on opposite side of the sun. Repeat on landing, altering your path by 1 degree (which relates to a huge amount of difference at planetary scales) and laugh as those trying to catch you flail about trying to pinpoint your location. Capitals would be the easiest to catch too, due to their long align times. Any subcap is guaranteed safety if they don't want to fight, provided they get off grid just once.

Kristian Hackett wrote:
And yes, this would make drag bubbles a bit more interesting to use, but in all honesty I've seen more warp disruption bubbles chilling static in a system with no one around than I have seen one with combat ships ready to pounce on unsuspecting prey. And think of the flipside of that - you can now drop those bubbles anywhere on the point-to-point warp paths in a single pass, no dropping the BM, warping back, dropping the bubble, etc., etc.

Knowledge of how drag bubbles and stop bubbles work says differently. Your idea would make drag and stop bubbles utterly useless, as they're usage is dependent on the angle the ship warping towards it is coming from. Instead of a limited amount of potential start points to cover, you literally have every single point in the system as a possible start point, meaning the only way a bubble would stop a ship warping onto a gate would be to place the bubble directly on the gate.

Kristian Hackett wrote:
And yes, it could also be a useful tool to counter current highsec ganking operations, but then the gank fleet should be ready to turn around and combat that with something light and fast that can catch the target.

Again, knowledge of the game mechanics says your idea would be of zero use preventing bumping in highsec. From a dead stop, the align time of any ship in the game is identical regardless of the direction the destination is. in the hands of a smart pilot, the only time a freighter is vulnerable is during the align warping off a gate. Your idea would not reduce that amount of time by even one attosecond.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#22 - 2016-03-13 00:43:19 UTC
Kristian Hackett wrote:
The point behind all of this is to make combat more interesting. For once, D-Scan can be damn useful for finding a target, input manual warp, bounce over, rinse/repeat without the use of combat probes. I'd think anyone hunting in nullsec would appreciate the idea. Granted it will require a bit more paitience, but if you're flying a ship with a covert ops cloak you're probably going to want that option of not needing to announce your presence with combat probes.

And yes, this would make drag bubbles a bit more interesting to use, but in all honesty I've seen more warp disruption bubbles chilling static in a system with no one around than I have seen one with combat ships ready to pounce on unsuspecting prey. And think of the flipside of that - you can now drop those bubbles anywhere on the point-to-point warp paths in a single pass, no dropping the BM, warping back, dropping the bubble, etc., etc.

And yes, it could also be a useful tool to counter current highsec ganking operations, but then the gank fleet should be ready to turn around and combat that with something light and fast that can catch the target.


I get the distinct impression you are woefully ignorant of current game mechanics. Have you ever hunted targets in Nullsec? Have you used bubbles? And why would this counter highsec ganking operations?
The Knight WhosaysNO
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-03-13 01:09:19 UTC
NO
Iain Cariaba
#24 - 2016-03-13 02:55:13 UTC
The Knight WhosaysNO wrote:
NO

To you, sir, all I have to say is, Ekke Ekke Ekke Ekke Ptang Zoo Boing! P
Kristian Hackett
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#25 - 2016-03-18 06:14:46 UTC
Iain Cariaba, I guess you missed the part where I said this would be penalized. Either by heavy cap consumption thus limiting active warp range, by an extended amount of time required to get into warp (what, you think you get to keep your lightning fast align time? Get real!) or by some combination of the two. An active hunting party WILL be able to catch a manual warp if they've got a good scanner. Sorry that my proposal isn't as easy as your current options and requires you to form a freaking strategy for once. Want your bubbles to be worth a damn? Then think smart when building your fleet comps and strategies.

And for highsec, any option, even a "I don't care where I'm going just get me out of here now" is better than watching helplessly as your ship is pinned by an exploitation of game mechanics while the gankers assemble the kill fleet.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."

Iain Cariaba
#26 - 2016-03-18 07:12:44 UTC
Kristian Hackett wrote:
Iain Cariaba, I guess you missed the part where I said this would be penalized. Either by heavy cap consumption thus limiting active warp range, by an extended amount of time required to get into warp (what, you think you get to keep your lightning fast align time? Get real!) or by some combination of the two. An active hunting party WILL be able to catch a manual warp if they've got a good scanner. Sorry that my proposal isn't as easy as your current options and requires you to form a freaking strategy for once. Want your bubbles to be worth a damn? Then think smart when building your fleet comps and strategies.

And for highsec, any option, even a "I don't care where I'm going just get me out of here now" is better than watching helplessly as your ship is pinned by an exploitation of game mechanics while the gankers assemble the kill fleet.

Ohhh, looks like I hit a nerve. Such angst. Such butthurt. Shocked Now, let me see if I can find any actual content in your post, as it look rather salty from here.

If you have to enact such harsh penalties as you have described here, then what's the point to your idea? With such draconian measure to "balance" this terrible idea, the only real use it has is to re-institute deep safe spots, which were broken and removed by CCP.

Unlike you, I am an established poster in F&I. Had you bothered to look up who you were trying to argue with, you'd realize that I don't do bubbles. I PvE in highsec, and dip occasionally into lowsec for PvP, this after spending 11 years bouncing all over the game to experience what there is to do. That said, let's take a look at your measures to "balance" this from the outlook of someone who knows what he's talking about.

1. Cap use to restrict warp distance.
While on the outside this may seem reasonable, you seem to forget that most combat ships in game can warp well over 100AU without significant impact to their capacitor, an most, when fit properly, can almost completely recharge that capacitor while in warp. About the only ships that cannot do this are haulers, because they don't need the extra capacitor to run offensive modules. So, your penalty here wouldn't really impact combat ships, but would make your idea essentially useless to those you intended it for.
2. Increased align time.
Again, we're looking at another instance where this wouldn't have a lot of impact on combat ships, which align relatively quickly compared to those ships you claim this idea would save. When you factor in time to probe down the target from a max range probe scan, which would pretty much be required to start with, even a battleship with 10x align time penalty would be gone before a combat fit interceptor landed on grid from 50AU out.
3. A combination of the two.
This is simply an unreasonable penalty for a totally unnecessary mechanic, one that will, once again, be felt far, far more by the industrialists and haulers than those hunting them. Even if it weren't unreasonable, it could simply be bypassed by one manual warp, followed by one regular warp to a celestial, followed by another manual warp.

As for highsec, well, if you fly like you're in hostile territory (hint, you are), than you don't need this module in the first place. You being forced to watch as you're bumped out of range of the gate guns and ganked is your penalty for making every single mistake you could have possibly made. You don't need an "I don't care where I'm going just get me out of here now" button, you need to learn how to fly properly. I've flown the same Charon back and forth throughout highsec since before they added the lowslots to them, and have never even been bumped. I see nothing unreasonable in the bumping mechanic, because I know how to avoid getting bumped. If you spent half the effort learning how to do that as you put into trying to flame me with that last post, you wouldn't have to worry about being bumped either.
Kristian Hackett
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#27 - 2016-03-31 22:38:22 UTC
I don't worry about being bumped either, because I also fly my ships smart and also attempt to keep tabs on where to just not fly (Uedama, Niarja, any place where the gankers are just burning everything in sight, etc).

But hey if you want to go all aggressive and lay on the insults, whatever bro.

All I'm pointing out here is that there's one exploit being used (bumping out of alignment to stall the warp) with seemingly no fix than to use another exploit (webbing to induce warp) to get away.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."

Iain Cariaba
#28 - 2016-04-01 00:59:08 UTC
Kristian Hackett wrote:
All I'm pointing out here is that there's one exploit being used (bumping out of alignment to stall the warp) with seemingly no fix than to use another exploit (webbing to induce warp) to get away.

CCP have already stated that bumping is not an exploit. Regardless of your feelings or opinion on the matter, this is fact.

There are several other methods to get out of a bump once it starts, but for some odd reason the concept of having friends to help you and coordinating efforts seems to be a foreign concept to you carebears. Oh, wait. There's that word again. The word "effort" seems to have the same effect on carebears that the word "it's" has on the Knights Who Say Ni.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#29 - 2016-04-01 02:08:54 UTC
Definitely no. It only makes probing mandatory for catching anyone, and way too easy for people to keep running away with 1 au warps in random directions, so much so that it will be impossible to catch in most cases even with excellent probing skills. Even if you made the penalty for such manual warp massive, such as making it 10 times slower to get into warp and consuming full capacitor, that won't solve anything if the guy running away has a regular cloak. Just wap to random spot and cloak up. Having no capacitor at this stage is totally irrelevant and you cannot be probed, so that's BS.

Where you warp to while running away is a tactical choice. Preparing safe spots before you start ratting or whatever in a system is also tactical preparation and can already be done easily with existing mechanics. If you want to jump into any system and skip the whole bookmark making process and just happily rat away and escape to total safety with manual warp, then that's totally not acceptable.

And you've lost all credibility by calling bumping an 'exploit' and insta warp with webbing another 'exploit'. The word 'exploit' is such a loaded term and choosing to call them 'exploits' instead of more neutral term like 'game mechanic' you are putting your own personal values and ideologies into how things should be done in this game. And the impression you give out from calling these things 'exploits' is that your game feature idea is not in line with eve philosophy.
Madrax573
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-04-01 04:15:36 UTC
From an immersion POV of view I like this idea.

But with current game mechanics it would just break it too much.

However I think that it is a good concept to work towards.....

Some ideas to change warp mechanics that might allow this.

Min warp distance to be at least 250-300km. Otherwise you have just killed off the 'blink' micro jump drives.

Make bubbles effective anywhere rather than just on grid at destination or start point. I.e half way between gates in the middle of the system etc. This allows active counters to emergency warp drops. Becomes more of a tactical decision on where to place bubbles.

Big delay to rewarp after an emergency warp drop (20 - 30s) good scanners can get a hit easily in this time.
Or
Smaller rewarp delay but a huge sig bloom for the same delay. Once again to allow easier probing of E-warp drops.
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