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Give ships that can use a covert ops cloak a local delay

Author
Xackattack Avianson
Hold The Pod
Duck.U
#1 - 2016-03-11 01:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Xackattack Avianson
The idea is simple, give ships that can fit a covert ops cloak a delay from appearing in local chat.

Doesn't have to be a long delay, 10 seconds would be more than enough.

Local chat is being abused for easy intel and ruins the fun of covert ops in my mind.

Good idea? Bad idea? Thoughts?
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#2 - 2016-03-11 01:12:51 UTC
The gate camp still hears the gate cycle and sees the effect if they have audio off.

I don't think it is a bad idea. I just don't think it will have the effect you expect. The cloaky scout watching your gate will still tell his friends at the other gate, or on the other side. People are just going to tell you to go live in a wh.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Iain Cariaba
#3 - 2016-03-11 02:38:15 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
People are just going to tell you to go live in a wh.

You beat me to it. Big smile
Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
#4 - 2016-03-11 04:40:40 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
People are just going to tell you to go live in a wh.

You beat me to it. Big smile


Somehow I don't think he wants this for the place he lives. Rather for somewhere someone else lives Roll
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-03-11 05:04:43 UTC
Corvald Tyrska wrote:


Somehow I don't think he wants this for the place he lives. Rather for somewhere someone else lives Roll


I'm also inclined to think this isn't intended for anything other than blowing up targets of opportunity.

Whether it's HS, low sec, or NS; I believe the intent here is to make killing easier, but not in a way that benefits Eve.
Instead, only benefiting those who wish to kill whilst reducing the risk of death.

Can't knock him for flying cloaky ships to do so.. I do it myself.
However, doesn't mean I wish to fundamentally change Eve for the sake of providing myself with a target rich environment.

I would rather change Eve in a way that makes people actually want to pvp...
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#6 - 2016-03-11 05:52:08 UTC
The thing is, I don't think "a few minutes" is even necessary. I remember when I used to live in Providence. I was ratting in a belt and a red popped in system. Since I was a newb, I wasn't pre-aligned so station, but I did hit warp-to station immediately.

A hostile inty popped in the belt just as I warped out. So a skilled pilot doesn't need much time at all to pounce the unwary.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#7 - 2016-03-11 15:21:42 UTC
It's easy enough already for prospect and bomber to fly right through the intel and go suprise slow aligning targets, I see your face too often in Provi to think that you dont want but even easier kills for yourself.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-03-11 16:23:20 UTC
Bad idea. No balance. The cloaky gets an advantage, the prey does not.

Just remove local entirely. Balance on both sides.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#9 - 2016-03-11 19:02:02 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Bad idea. No balance. The cloaky gets an advantage, the prey does not.

Just remove local entirely. Balance on both sides.


Sure there would be balance. Thanks to how vast sov is these days, it is literally impossible to sneak up on someone who is even paying the vaguest mote of attention thanks to either the in game tools/intel channels, or the 3rd party tools.

99.99% of the time, the kill is the result of the ratter being careless, with 00.01% of the time being because the hunter was good. I have done a lot of blops hunting, and this balance always was sort of frustrating, especially since most of the good ratting ships these days can do everything while aligned. Just a tiny 10 second window would give one enough time to find which anomaly they are at and give the hunter a chance.

Removing local entirely would be amazing - dscan becomes king and the active hunter rather than the afk ratter has an actual advantage.

Either that or actually fix the real problem of docking up in response to raiders being the best solution. Imagine if you had to complete a site to collect isk, and invaders could somehow de-spawn half completed anomalies, or if all income had to be collected through ESS type things that could not be guarded by rats.

Perfect, instant, 100% reliable intel sort of spoils a game about risk.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2016-03-11 19:34:32 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Bad idea. No balance. The cloaky gets an advantage, the prey does not.

Just remove local entirely. Balance on both sides.


Sure there would be balance. Thanks to how vast sov is these days, it is literally impossible to sneak up on someone who is even paying the vaguest mote of attention thanks to either the in game tools/intel channels, or the 3rd party tools.

99.99% of the time, the kill is the result of the ratter being careless, with 00.01% of the time being because the hunter was good. I have done a lot of blops hunting, and this balance always was sort of frustrating, especially since most of the good ratting ships these days can do everything while aligned. Just a tiny 10 second window would give one enough time to find which anomaly they are at and give the hunter a chance.

Removing local entirely would be amazing - dscan becomes king and the active hunter rather than the afk ratter has an actual advantage.

Either that or actually fix the real problem of docking up in response to raiders being the best solution. Imagine if you had to complete a site to collect isk, and invaders could somehow de-spawn half completed anomalies, or if all income had to be collected through ESS type things that could not be guarded by rats.

Perfect, instant, 100% reliable intel sort of spoils a game about risk.


Nobody is going to not dock up with the changes you suggest. Ratting ships are extremely vulnerable to PvP ships.

But you have put your finger on the problem with that last line, although you forgot invulnerable. Local is perfect, provides a slight time advantage (if you are in a system you'll see any intruder in local before he loads grid), and 100% accurate.

This is why I am hoping that the upcoming Observatory Array will do away with local and you can do something like hack them so that they are not 100% accurate. Especially if they work as a network. You hack it in system A then mosey on over to system B not showing up in the intel network and then misbehave.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#11 - 2016-03-11 19:55:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
This is why I am hoping that the upcoming Observatory Array will do away with local and you can do something like hack them so that they are not 100% accurate. Especially if they work as a network. You hack it in system A then mosey on over to system B not showing up in the intel network and then misbehave.


I am filled to the brim with excitement and hope given how well ESS and Siphons worked, and how sucessfully they were implemented.

They totally won't be completely tilted/outright exploited in favor of anyone - heaven's no!

A game is where both sides make moves to determine the final outcome. When it comes to ratters, they have all the cards, all the pieces, and all the moves - it's no fun as the game is 100% in their control, and avoidance is still the best strategy.


Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-03-11 20:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucien Visteen
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Perfect, instant, 100% reliable intel sort of spoils a game about risk.
Complete infinite invisibility does the same thing.

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#13 - 2016-03-11 21:28:22 UTC
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Perfect, instant, 100% reliable intel sort of spoils a game about risk.
Complete infinite invisibility does the same thing.


Not at all. It actually enforces a good risk/reward paradigm - you can make the most in WHs, yet you will almost never be 100% safe the way you are doing anomalies in deep sov.

The original poster isn't going for infinite invisibility anyway, just a slightly delayed one. AFK cloaking is terrible game play, but you soon realize the practicality of it when actively hunting is so futile - you aren't so much hunting as trying to find someone who will let themselves be caught. You literally have no way to get to someone who is paying any amount of attention, and likewise they do not have to commit anything to run anomalies, and can warp out at will, yet still collect all the reward.

10s delay would be a good compromise.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#14 - 2016-03-11 21:48:48 UTC
So please explain me how is that hundred of people get caught daily ratting or mining daily in null space, with this so unfair instant local intel against you.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2016-03-11 22:39:23 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
So please explain me how is that hundred of people get caught daily ratting or mining daily in null space, with this so unfair instant local intel against you.

inattention usually is result
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2016-03-12 01:51:02 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
So please explain me how is that hundred of people get caught daily ratting or mining daily in null space, with this so unfair instant local intel against you.


Idiots.
Naj Panora
Shadow Broker Fleet
#17 - 2016-03-12 02:00:37 UTC
Xackattack Avianson wrote:
The idea is simple, give ships that can fit a covert ops cloak a delay from appearing in local chat.

Doesn't have to be a long delay, 10 seconds would be more than enough

Local chat is being abused for easy intel and ruins the fun of covert ops in my mind.

Good idea? Bad idea? Thoughts?

If they add a way to find cloaky ships that are in safe spots sure I'll agree.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#18 - 2016-03-12 03:06:37 UTC
Naj Panora wrote:
If they add a way to find cloaky ships that are in safe spots sure I'll agree.


Sure. Anything to make it more balanced. At the moment it is a boring game for both - hunters have no chance to catch ratters really, and so cloaky camping is the natural response. If hunters had a reasonable chance to catch ratters, than for sure ratters should be able to deal with cloaky camping.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines
#19 - 2016-03-12 03:48:55 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
When it comes to ratters, they have all the cards, all the pieces, and all the moves - it's no fun as the game is 100% in their control, and avoidance is still the best strategy.

Those ratters worked with each other, established an intel network between themselves, and use scouts to monitor systems. Why shouldn't you have to put in the same amount of work to kill them?

They have worked together for the common goal of minimize their risk. You should have to work with others to maximize your chances of catching them. This is a multiplayer game, if you play with others you may see your chances of success increase.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#20 - 2016-03-12 04:32:35 UTC
Kyra Lee wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
When it comes to ratters, they have all the cards, all the pieces, and all the moves - it's no fun as the game is 100% in their control, and avoidance is still the best strategy.

Those ratters worked with each other, established an intel network between themselves, and use scouts to monitor systems. Why shouldn't you have to put in the same amount of work to kill them?

They have worked together for the common goal of minimize their risk. You should have to work with others to maximize your chances of catching them. This is a multiplayer game, if you play with others you may see your chances of success increase.


There is no way to work together to maximize your chances of catching them, short of getting alts or other characters to awox. Perhaps you'd like to share these secrets? There is no counter to local.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

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