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Tired or not, it's a fact. The only real risk comes from pressing the wrong buttons or from making bad decisions, and making bad decisions will generally be a minimal impact unless you overextend. And for that low risk you get the highest income in the entire game with minimal input and no undocking. Increasing broker fees at the very least adds more of an impact from making bad decisions.

There is a certain Much ado about nothing to this thread as a whole, but I think the main concern that Gevlon expressed is a reasonable concern: The isk potential for large ISK holder to collude to never attack each other's "market hubs" would be very high. The issue with that is a simple one: their collusion mean fewer fights and less isk being destroyed and thus removed from the game.

Is it a merely theoretical concern, or does it have a basis in game fact?

The fee + citaldels overall are such a complicated change that unless someone can point a game where something very similar happened and the results of it this is just all pure speculation.

As said previously by CCP posts they are going to do things gradually.

Thus I think/hope they will not put whatever broker/sales tax change there might be to be effective from day one but rather see first how the iterations are playing out. If I were CCP if I wanted to touch the fees I would also change them gradually, see how people react and then adjust.

Of course they could make a social game experiment and put everything to chaos at once

I think your totally on the WRONG track Lucas, it isn't brokers fees or even the npc fees - It is the people who will own these Citadels. They are in general not trustworthy therefore there is no reason to trust your eve wealth to them.
You yourself stated you will not put your whole market inventory into a Citadel - You obviously have no faith in the concept, why are you defending it?

The ONLY person I would trust my inventory to in a Citadel would be Chribba - He opens a trade hub in a Citadel, I'll gladly use it. Aside from that, there is no other person or group that could convince me to use their Citadel and risk losing everything.

Like i said, CCP need to find a way to make Citadels attractive without penalizing those who have no wish to use them.

Another thing that will keep citadels from being successful trade hubs - No contracts - Contracting is an integral part of trading. Adding it later, is too late to add it.

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Something I've not seen mentioned anywhere is the redemption system - What security do Citadels offer someone who just purchased plex - Is CCP going to refund the RL money investment if the guy who got the plex is excluded from ever redeeming it? Either by destruction of Citadel, the wrong standings with the owner, Citadel being moved or just turned off, etc.
Or, the more likely scenario, the redemption system will only be available via npc stations, another reason to not use Citadels.

People do invest real money into eve, there needs to be safeguards to ensure they are not at risk via game mechanics surrounding Citadels of not being able to realize that investment.

Oh and another point - If CCP got rid of all the market bots it would go a long way toward fixing at least one part of the Citadel vs NPC station issue.

Really Lucas, there are literally thousands of items on the market that have minimal (under 10%) returns now and with a 3.5% brokers fee + transaction fees, those items become not worth listing. Yet those same items are the ones that keep the markets ticking over. With good skills and standings those cheap minimal profit items are pretty good income - Double npc taxes and add new broker fees, they are no longer viable items. Halving the profit for smaller traders is removing them from trading.
And of course TQ needs more monopolies, especially in trading. At that point buying things in new eden becomes extortion rather than free trade.

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CCP have always said the markets in Eve are player driven enterprises, yet CCP is now saying, well this is not really the case because we need to make sure our latest attempt at creating something new has a chance to be adopted. It is not viable to introduce Citadels (they won't be adopted as intended) unless we at CCP manipulate the markets of new eden in an attempt to force players to use them.



Seriously, CCP Seagull - Get your Dev teams on track with your vision for Eve. It will never be achieved like this.
When your dreaming up new game mechanics and items, there is more to Eve than Goons and PL type groups. Designing for the elitists is not good game design.

There is an inherent contradiction in here I'm afraid. First you point out that some goods are so aggressively traded the profit margin is low. So smaller traders will exit the market and then with less competition prices will rise dramatically....which should prompt traders to enter the market and drop prices back down.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Problem with gevlons numbers is I think he is lumping the taxes from every trade action made in every NPC station in all of the galaxy. No powerblock is going to be making the kind of isk being talked about here.

We will see how it pans out. The potential its giving the most powerful groups in the game to grief the absolute **** out of all the solo guys and carebears of highsec though is staggering. Goonswarm and minluv were established on those guiding principles. The potential tear generation will be awesum to watch from the sidelines.

True, but given the volume of trade conducted in Jita alone, compared to anywhere else, its not an unattractive number. Whatever the number is, however, would it be high enough to entice rivals to put aside differences and come to an agreement to not threaten each others' market Citadels?

Look at just about anything Greyscale promoted. He very much wanted to turn NS into a dystopian horror show. Jump fatigue, jump range nerfs, were two he actually implemented.



Good thing he is gone. But you think a permanent tax increase is bad? Hahahahaha.

shhhhhh