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[March] Warp Disruptor and Scrambler Tiericide

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Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#121 - 2016-02-20 18:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Murkar Omaristos
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#122 - 2016-02-21 06:05:37 UTC
can we now have faction warpcore stabs please??

navy faction +2
sisters of eve faction +3
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#123 - 2016-02-21 23:40:44 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
big miker wrote:
Holy **** at the Republic fleet / Domination warp disruptor CPU increase Shocked

I always thought it was a bit silly the 30km points were 19cpu, although not sure jumping up to 40 is the right thing to do.

The cpu issue needs to be addressed. 40 seems really harsh when fitting can still be a huge issue.
Loradan Illstari
Illstari Industries
#124 - 2016-02-22 21:09:32 UTC
Get rekt small ships.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#125 - 2016-02-22 23:28:20 UTC
Cartheron Crust wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Cartheron Crust wrote:
Cearain wrote:
As with the webs it seems to me not all meta 8 are equal. A cpu reduction does not equate to a range increase when it comes to faction webs or faction points.


Actually it does. That is a valid trade off. After years of EFT warrioring fits and then using them in game, many times the Caldari Navy Scram (i think it was that faction one) was the scram of choice. Because of that very low cpu use allowing the fit I wanted, while still having a slight increase in range over T2 and being quite a bit cheaper than the other faction variants. Smile

Fitting, range, strength and isk (done via LP store and/or drop rate) are all valid ways of "balancing" when it comes to modules for pvp.


Hi Cartheron

If you want to bet which disruptors or webs will cost more in one year I would be happy to bet you. If this clear inequality is left The caladari and dread guristas will be cheaper.

When it comes to faction items it is going to be much more useful to have the range when fitting to cruiser or above than the cpu. For fitting to frigates maybe the cpu will be helpful but you will find that overall the demand for the faction items with better primary stats will be much more in demand. If the cpu ones actually go up to much in price no one flying a frigate will even want to fit them. So this is doomed to inequity.



It is indeed strange then that I and the corp I am in largely fly cruiser and above (and prefer BC/BS really) and still have found use many times for the CN scram because of the exact reason of lower cpu use and ISK cost, while still getting a small range increase over t2. Pretty much the only frigate we use is the keres and only for damps. But please carry on and ignore my point.


I'm not ignoring your point. But I think you are missing mine. Yes you fit them in part because they cost less. They cost less because they are not as powerful as the other faction scrams.

All of the faction items are supposed to be the same power as reflected by them all now being the same meta level. See how they are changing the minmatar BCUs to match caldari? They are not making the caldari webs scrams or disruptors as strong as the fed navy ones or really any of the other faction ones. It would make sense if they just left them at a lower meta level if they are not going to make them as powerful.

Caldari scrams are much cheaper than the other faction scrams and they will remain so because cpu gains for faction scrams are not as important as range.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Loradan Illstari
Illstari Industries
#126 - 2016-02-23 21:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Loradan Illstari
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
big miker wrote:
Holy **** at the Republic fleet / Domination warp disruptor CPU increase Shocked

I always thought it was a bit silly the 30km points were 19cpu, although not sure jumping up to 40 is the right thing to do.

The cpu issue needs to be addressed. 40 seems really harsh when fitting can still be a huge issue.


They are addressing it, and the answer is "get rekt small ships". CPU should be an issue if you want a 30km scram. Having it at 19 was just hella stupid and should have changed a long time ago. Having CPU issues? Fly a bigger ship. Dank fits will just have to fit Caldari Navy. Oh, the horror.
Cartheron Crust
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#127 - 2016-02-24 13:43:47 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Cartheron Crust wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Cartheron Crust wrote:
Cearain wrote:
As with the webs it seems to me not all meta 8 are equal. A cpu reduction does not equate to a range increase when it comes to faction webs or faction points.


Actually it does. That is a valid trade off. After years of EFT warrioring fits and then using them in game, many times the Caldari Navy Scram (i think it was that faction one) was the scram of choice. Because of that very low cpu use allowing the fit I wanted, while still having a slight increase in range over T2 and being quite a bit cheaper than the other faction variants. Smile

Fitting, range, strength and isk (done via LP store and/or drop rate) are all valid ways of "balancing" when it comes to modules for pvp.


Hi Cartheron

If you want to bet which disruptors or webs will cost more in one year I would be happy to bet you. If this clear inequality is left The caladari and dread guristas will be cheaper.

When it comes to faction items it is going to be much more useful to have the range when fitting to cruiser or above than the cpu. For fitting to frigates maybe the cpu will be helpful but you will find that overall the demand for the faction items with better primary stats will be much more in demand. If the cpu ones actually go up to much in price no one flying a frigate will even want to fit them. So this is doomed to inequity.



It is indeed strange then that I and the corp I am in largely fly cruiser and above (and prefer BC/BS really) and still have found use many times for the CN scram because of the exact reason of lower cpu use and ISK cost, while still getting a small range increase over t2. Pretty much the only frigate we use is the keres and only for damps. But please carry on and ignore my point.


I'm not ignoring your point. But I think you are missing mine. Yes you fit them in part because they cost less. They cost less because they are not as powerful as the other faction scrams.

All of the faction items are supposed to be the same power as reflected by them all now being the same meta level. See how they are changing the minmatar BCUs to match caldari? They are not making the caldari webs scrams or disruptors as strong as the fed navy ones or really any of the other faction ones. It would make sense if they just left them at a lower meta level if they are not going to make them as powerful.

Caldari scrams are much cheaper than the other faction scrams and they will remain so because cpu gains for faction scrams are not as important as range.


Perhaps with the revamping of the cpu costs the CN scram etc will become more valuable to pilots. It is vastly less in cpu than the previous commonly used meta 3 and 4 scrams and still less than the rest of the faction scrams. Fitting is going to become significantly more difficult especially for frigates and other cpu light ships due to all the rebalancing of modules.
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2016-02-25 15:38:57 UTC
Tiercide has accomplished nothing but making choice boring across a generic set of stuff..

The old naming conventions were interesting and fun to know.

The old modules had choices, cost versus ability. The new ones are generic.

You are removing interesting aspects of this game. Well done.
Loradan Illstari
Illstari Industries
#129 - 2016-02-26 19:13:47 UTC
Moloney wrote:
Tiercide has accomplished nothing but making choice boring across a generic set of stuff..

The old naming conventions were interesting and fun to know.

The old modules had choices, cost versus ability. The new ones are generic.

You are removing interesting aspects of this game. Well done.


What are you on about? The old(current) faction disruptors all had the same CPU cost except for Rep Fleet and Domination, which made the choice obvious. Rep fleet or bust. The new costs make the other disruptors worth some of their salt. You have it backwards. Completely backwards.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#130 - 2016-02-27 11:07:26 UTC
With this update less than a week and a half away, It might be a good idea to take into account the significant feedback in this thread now, before this first pass of changes gets released onto TQ in their current state.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#131 - 2016-03-03 10:37:03 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
With this update less than a week and a half away, It might be a good idea to take into account the significant feedback in this thread now, before this first pass of changes gets released onto TQ in their current state.


I agree. Some form of meaningful update would be nice. Even if its just a we are going ahead with current.
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
#132 - 2016-03-03 20:51:30 UTC
please metascrams needs more range. range only 7500 and 8250nge is going to kill most of scram kite tactics... :-(

sry for my English :-(
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#133 - 2016-03-04 20:28:24 UTC
As per usual, the word "Feedback" in the sub forum header, is there just for aesthetic reasons.
Arcturus Ursidae
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2016-03-04 23:29:56 UTC
Was going to post more extensively in DC feedback thread but it's still locked. I can see what is trying to be done but the DC still feels too strong and here small ships seem entirely balanced around fitting meta webs and scrams.

take 10CPU of the scrams and disrupters and add it to the DC. That might make it hard enough to fit to cause a drop to a meta DC increasing the comparable power of other mods that it could be swapped for.
The Receptionist
Novartis Corporation.
#135 - 2016-03-05 16:40:10 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
As per usual, the word "Feedback" in the sub forum header, is there just for aesthetic reasons.


Yep. "Thanks for all the feedback. We're gonna go ahead and do this anyways."
Jack Roulette
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2016-03-08 17:07:01 UTC
Point range is so vital to any pvp ship, why would anyone fit the meta 1 modules? There's no significant cost or skill hurdle to the T2 modules here, so what's the point of having a bunch of meta 1s that have their most important stat nerfed?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#137 - 2016-03-08 17:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Jack Roulette wrote:
Point range is so vital to any pvp ship, why would anyone fit the meta 1 modules? There's no significant cost or skill hurdle to the T2 modules here, so what's the point of having a bunch of meta 1s that have their most important stat nerfed?


Fitting cost. I would rather have a 7.5km scram than no scram, or an otherwise gimped fit. I have lots of tight fits that rely on the J5B currently. Some of those will depend on the Initiated scram to remain at all viable in the future. The art of fitting requires compromises to speed, tank, damage, electronic warfare, etc. The meta 1 modules provide affordable options for this.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jediseah Tophet
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#138 - 2016-03-09 09:14:18 UTC
Vogels wrote:
What's the point of having 3 groups of mods each with the exact same stats? There is no reason to have 6 redundant modules that are named differently.


This. Absolutely no point to keep mutiple Modules that do the same thing. You could at least differentiate them by 1 cpu or cap use.
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#139 - 2016-03-09 09:50:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Atomeon wrote:
Warak Soal wrote:
Stealth nerf to Deep Space Transports or will you bump their warp core strength to +3?


Yes, when you going to fix this? Also DON'T forget Venture the mining frigate!


As DST owner I don't see the issue. Fit a stab or out tank till help arrives.


I do not even get it. We had faction scrams with 3 point strength before.
Binary Gamura
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#140 - 2016-03-09 21:07:56 UTC
Let me guess.... fozzie is behind this? Again? As someone mentioned before, fitting small PvP ships is now much harder. Guys..... i am really really getting tired. Most of my fits dont work anymore. And i dont want to put expensive CPU implants in my head just to get a fitting working again.

But hey... writing to this thread or complaining about stuff is as effictive as talking to a wall. I am really sad right now.