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Tengu Strategic Cruiser

Author
Queen Padi
The Ranger's
#1 - 2016-03-08 04:28:24 UTC
Oh man where have you been Tengu :) Big smile

Awesome for mission running upto lv3 so far.

fitted with all tech 2+ skills level 5.

Before I take it out on level 4 missions I would like to hear from other tengu veterans if its any good against all level 4 missions?

Thanks in advance.
Aluanna
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2016-03-08 08:02:25 UTC
Queen Padi wrote:
Oh man where have you been Tengu :) Big smile

Awesome for mission running upto lv3 so far.

fitted with all tech 2+ skills level 5.

Before I take it out on level 4 missions I would like to hear from other tengu veterans if its any good against all level 4 missions?

Thanks in advance.


It's only considered the best non battleship PVE boat there is...
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-03-08 17:04:24 UTC
Aluanna wrote:
Queen Padi wrote:
Oh man where have you been Tengu :) Big smile

Awesome for mission running upto lv3 so far.

fitted with all tech 2+ skills level 5.

Before I take it out on level 4 missions I would like to hear from other tengu veterans if its any good against all level 4 missions?

Thanks in advance.


It's only considered the best non battleship PVE boat there is...


No. It sux.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-03-08 19:01:34 UTC
It's good in all the missions where you don't get killed.

Right now, you only lose 3 days of training if you get killed, but the devs are considering buffing that so that if you are flying a strategic cruiser and it blows up, then they send two yobs to your house to beat you up.
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#5 - 2016-03-08 21:18:26 UTC
Droidster wrote:
It's good in all the missions where you don't get killed.

Right now, you only lose 3 days of training if you get killed, but the devs are considering buffing that so that if you are flying a strategic cruiser and it blows up, then they send two yobs to your house to beat you up.


I for one would applaud this patch note Shocked

Will gank for food

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#6 - 2016-03-09 00:52:57 UTC
Droidster wrote:
It's good in all the missions where you don't get killed.

Right now, you only lose 3 days of training if you get killed, but the devs are considering buffing that so that if you are flying a strategic cruiser and it blows up, then they send two yobs to your house to beat you up.

To be fair, if you lose a tengu to a level 4 mission you deserve to have to have two yobs come over to your house and beat you up.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#7 - 2016-03-09 02:34:55 UTC
The number one goal in any mission site (or real fight), is to survive. The Tengu tanks most missions very well.

The number two job is to kill the enemy. The Tengu is NOT the best ship for killing rats in missions. A battleship will generally always do a better job. Marauders were specifically built for missions but many other BS do the job as well.

Tengu can do level IV's, just not as fast.
MT Dinkle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-03-09 03:58:18 UTC
Golem or tengu thats all i use for lvl 4. I recommend heavys not heavy assult imo. My skills and range.
Queen Padi
The Ranger's
#9 - 2016-03-09 10:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Queen Padi
RavenPaine wrote:

The Tengu is NOT the best ship for killing rats in missions. A battleship will generally always do a better job. Marauders were specifically built for missions but many other BS do the job as well.

Tengu can do level IV's, just not as fast.



I disagree, My Tengu is overall better than a BS like Raven or Barghest. and the damage output using High precision scourge heavies against drones/frigs to BC and Fury scourge against BS does more damage than when I use a BS raven or Barghest. with Cruise Missile Precision scourge

comparing Cruise Missile Launcher tech 2 vs. Heavy Missile Launcher Tech 2
and T2 High Precision missiles!

Raven
DPS 670, 710 with drone support, cannot kill frigs without drones

Barghest
DPS 782, 820 with drones again cannot kill frigs without

Tengu
DPS 900 Easily kills everything!

My skills for all missiles are lvl 5 including adv supporting skills.
My skills for Tengu and BS including pirate BS are mostly lvl 5 some lvl 4.

I also have
Rapid Launch 5% implant
Cruise damage 5% implant
Heavy Missile damage 5% implant

I find that I can do lvl 4 faster and safer in my Tengu than the BS that I have tried already!
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#10 - 2016-03-09 12:00:02 UTC
i have more fun with a tengu than any other ship for missions

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#11 - 2016-03-09 14:11:28 UTC
Droidster wrote:
It's good in all the missions where you don't get killed.

Right now, you only lose 3 days of training if you get killed, but the devs are considering buffing that so that if you are flying a strategic cruiser and it blows up, then they send two yobs to your house to beat you up.



Will those same yobs come to your house and beat you up if you make a troll thread, Droidster?!?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#12 - 2016-03-09 17:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Tengu can moonwalk through most L4s (only really struggles in some of the bonus rooms) and outperforms pretty much everything except pirate BS and marauders.

Quite fun as well, start with HMLs, set orbit 50km and get used to the ship, then upgrade to a HAM fit and fly it more manually.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#13 - 2016-03-09 17:37:26 UTC
just watch you dont get webbed in a tengu

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Queen Padi
The Ranger's
#14 - 2016-03-09 21:21:22 UTC
I also play actively and close orbit, besides I have been webbed and scrambled and doesn't bother nor hurts me because of my tank and dps output.
just finished doing angel extra while being invincible Big smile
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-03-09 21:57:19 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
just watch you dont get webbed in a tengu


If you're using a small deadspace shield rep and speed tanking most of the damage, then yeah, don't get webbed. However, a medium deadspace shield rep fit doesn't care about webbers.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#16 - 2016-03-09 22:02:33 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
just watch you dont get webbed in a tengu


If you're using a small deadspace shield rep and speed tanking most of the damage, then yeah, don't get webbed. However, a medium deadspace shield rep fit doesn't care about webbers.


good to know, i use a small pith repper so that explains it

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#17 - 2016-03-15 07:52:08 UTC
Queen Padi wrote:

I disagree, My Tengu is overall better than a BS like Raven or Barghest. and the damage output using High precision scourge heavies against drones/frigs to BC and Fury scourge against BS does more damage than when I use a BS raven or Barghest. with Cruise Missile Precision scourge

comparing Cruise Missile Launcher tech 2 vs. Heavy Missile Launcher Tech 2
and T2 High Precision missiles!

Raven
DPS 670, 710 with drone support, cannot kill frigs without drones

Barghest
DPS 782, 820 with drones again cannot kill frigs without

Tengu
DPS 900 Easily kills everything!

My skills for all missiles are lvl 5 including adv supporting skills.
My skills for Tengu and BS including pirate BS are mostly lvl 5 some lvl 4.

I also have
Rapid Launch 5% implant
Cruise damage 5% implant
Heavy Missile damage 5% implant

I find that I can do lvl 4 faster and safer in my Tengu than the BS that I have tried already!


1. I am a bit puzzled here. I have flown both Tengu and Raven Navy Issue extensively over the years, and your 900 DPS Tengu with Heavy Missile Launcher Tech 2 seemed off.

So I tried to replicate a setup in EFT, and the following is what I got at all lvl V skills.

852 DPS with Scourge Fury missiles

That's with 6% implants (for heavy missiles and also rapid launch), MAX skills, highest damage ammo (which is T2 fury for HML), 4 x Caldari Navy BCU, with T2 ROF rig. That is NOT 900 DPS (unless you overheat, which will bringing to 1,002 DPS, but we are talking about L4 mission running, not pvp ganks so I assumed you are not talking about OH).

You said precision ammo, but I think that must have been a typo because using to precision missiles will bring it down to 633 DPS.

So unless you are fitting officer BCUs in your Tengu, I don't see how you can claim 900 DPS for Heavy Missile Tengu.

2. Tengu vs. Raven is not really a fair comparison. Raven is a standard T1 BS, whereas Tengu is T3, not to mention cost differences. So I set up a cruise CNR fit, with 8 T2 cruise launchers with 4 x Caldari Navy BCUs, with 6% implnats for Cruise missiles and rapid launch.


With fury cruise missiles, you get 1,069 DPS at ANY damage type.

But of course, people will talk about damage application for such configuration.

CNR has inherent bonus to damage application though, and can fit 3 x T2 Rigors or combination of T2 Rigors and Flares.

With 2 x T2 Rigors and 1 x T2 Flare, you get the following with Fury Cruise missiles.

Explosion velocity: 104.4
Explosion radius: 210.799

How does Tengu compare to that with T2 furies?

Explosion velocity: 102
Explosion radius: 153.637

That's with 1 T1 rigor, because if you fit T2 ROF rig on Tengu, you cannot fit T2 rigor or flare on it anymore. If you drop T2 ROF rig, your base DPS drops much more already.


So when both Tengu and CNR are using Furies, explosion velosity is pretty much same for CNR and Tengu. Tengu definitely has small explosion radius with HML, but the difference compared to CNR is within the range of what can be compensated by target painters easily.

What's also interesting is when changing to faction cruise missiles, CNR actually gets smaller explosion radius at 122, while having higher raw DPS (878) than Tengu with furies. If Tengu switches to faction missiles, it gets a very good explosion radius at 89, but the DPS drops down to 727.


Don't get me wrong, Tengu is a great ship and I've used it for years for many PvE/PvP applications. It's actually one of my most used ships according to kill board and my time spent ratting/exploring/missioning from null to high sec.

But CNR has such raw DPS power with damage selection, while having the application bonus and crazy ranges, I think it trumps over Tengu when it comes to L4.

It's a moot point as there will be missions where zipping around in Tengu may blitz the mission faster, or there are missions with more frigs/cruisers than BS which could make Tengu a better choice than CNR.

But conversely, when it comes to missions with large number of BS, CNR will complete it faster than Tengu. And if you are fighting Angels/Blood Raider/Sansha, CNR will be incomparably faster than Tengu because of being able to select damage type.

I highly recommend Tengu to anyone, but I just wanted to write this because you make it sound like Tengu actually has DPS advantage over other heavier hitting BS missile boats. Tengu is a very nice ship and can do many things very well, but in all out DPS contest, even taking into consideration damage application, I really don't think it triumphs over CNR except for a few frig/cruiser fest missions.

HML are not what they used to be when Tengu really was the king. :p


Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#18 - 2016-03-15 19:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Queen Padi wrote:
Oh man where have you been Tengu :) Big smile

Awesome for mission running upto lv3 so far.

fitted with all tech 2+ skills level 5.

Before I take it out on level 4 missions I would like to hear from other tengu veterans if its any good against all level 4 missions?

Thanks in advance.


I did level 4s in a HAM-Legion once. It worked like a charm. I assume a Tengu would work, too.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#19 - 2016-03-16 01:26:53 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
just watch you dont get webbed in a tengu


If you're using a small deadspace shield rep and speed tanking most of the damage, then yeah, don't get webbed. However, a medium deadspace shield rep fit doesn't care about webbers.


good to know, i use a small pith repper so that explains it


Webbing still sucks, especially under multiple webs, but a pith-c medium or better gives you more breathing room. You still don't want to get webbed too much for too long, but you'll last longer and have more time to react and kill the webbers than if you're only running a small booster. Been a long time since I flew a Tengu, but that's what I remember anyways.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."