Ships & Modules

Its just really underwhelming slot layout for a shield tanked BS. You lose a lot of utility and not having a web means your application suffers really badly. Brawling with hull tank nets you more ehp and far better utility to drive up application. Can understand why you run that in a Pulsar though :D

When you have 5-10 people in a gang providing webs/TP's etc, it probably is fine in a WH. But in K-space, or in a small gang its a terrible setup. Missiles need more than a scram to apply, especially heavies. You also have fury heavies which is even worse for application (unless you are fighting a BS, or a heavily webbed BC).

Application against cruisers or frigs will be poor. Again, if you have enough people in your gang, you may not notice it. But if you get singled out, or roam alone, its an extremely subpar way to use it.

I disagree
1/ you would lost the option to fit 8 guns for a full gank fit
2/ every one will expect you to come with missile, it would prevent you fron using something "else". Being not predictable for a typhoon pilot is one of its strength
3/ one more step, ask for one more med slot for better shield tank and i will ask you politely to use a raven ;)

moreove, It s good to show some fittings, it would be very good to show the gained killmarks.

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, RHML]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Core B-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Large Micro Jump Drive

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Ancillary Current Router I


Praetor II x5

This is the fit I like to run. It has more than enough mobility to keep up with roaming gangs and dishes out a ton of DPS, all of which is applied fairly well. You can sacrifice warp speed for application by swapping the hyperspatials to rigors, but then you lose a lot of roaming capability.

Thats open for debate basic phoon is fully fledged missile ship if not buffing missiles directly (and i am not convinced one shouldn't) missile side can be reworked or drone side of ship can be looked at or hull it self(mwd / mjd / ab bonus just for example)

Anything really instead "just leave it its a RP thing" is a more sane thing to do.

I discovered the t1 pest with polarized guns and polarized torp launchers can get nearly identical dps as the typhoon FI in its dual weapon setup.

If the phoon FI uses torps+2 guns its gets around 2150dps with polarized fit.

T1 pest with 6 polarized guns and 2 polarized torp launchers is a little over 2000dps.

Not sure if 100dps is worth the extra cost of the hull. So once again, another projectile hull is still very comparable, or better altogether than Phoon FI with gun bonus. Its a useless bonus, and Either the T1 pest or Pest FI does it better or cheaper.

If the floons gun bonus isn't good enough to make it a good gunboat, that's a problem wither the guns, not the boat.

The Fleet typhoon has to sacrifice a low and a rig to fit a rack of T2 1400mms*, sure, but that's the 'pests role. The Fleet typhoon isn't meant to be quite as powerful a gunboat as the TFI, or else why would anyone fly the TFI when the fleet phoon is: faster, smaller, more agile, lighter, has more cap, has a bigger drone bay, much more drone bandwidth, an extra utility high and can also use bonused missiles while packing those ACs. (Did you take that ability into account while calculating those DPS numbers...?)

It has 9.6 effective turrets vs the Fleet Pest's 10 - a whole 4% less base turret DPS, albeit also with a worse alpha. But honestly, no one is flying fleet Tempests over phoons because they do 4% better base AC DPS. They're flying fleet tempests because brawling BS in general don't often work in the current "kite all the things!" meta, and people quite reasonably want to use arty in that environment, and the pest is definitely better as an arty platform.

The phoon is a substandard turret platform because BS ACs are a substandard turret. That's not a justification to remove the turret slots. (One might equally reasonably suggest that CCP remove the Typhoon's missile slots because no one's using them for torps!)

Nor would it necessarily lead to the fleet Typhoon getting additional missile power. The fleet phoon has the bonuses it has for a very specific reason: to allow it to be fully effective as a gun platform or as a missile platform - to preserve that versatility that was the originbal Typhoon's trademark. Losing those turret slots wouldn't gun it anything, and would lose it that versatility. That would be a goddamb shame.


*The huge fitting disparity between ACs and Arty has been problematic for balancing minmatar ships for as long as I can remember.

Compared to the fleet pest, the fleet phoon is faster by a negligible amount. Smaller? Its a BS, you're not sig tanking anything in a BS except maybe a dread. Last i checked, fleet phoon's aren't the go to ship to kill dreads either.

Lets say we do make a kiting nano phoon with autocannons. To try and take advantage of it being "faster, smaller, more agile" than the pest. The cookie cutter nano pest (modern one, not the old shield one) is 800mm, x2 nano's AAR, heavy neuts, cap booster and MJD. The phoon simply cannot fit what a pest or pest FI can because its about 3k-3.5k short on grid. Making identical fits between them, this is the result http://imgur.com/mBNDFyq.

Short of putting in a T2 Large ACR or sacrificing a low for an RCU, you cannot fit heavy neuts, and you cannot fit MJD because you simply don't have the grid. You can't even take advantage of the missile bonus, because you still don't have the grid to fit RHML in the empty utility highs. (Did you take that into account when assuming you can fit autocannons and missiles on a dedicated PvP ship?). Hint: When kiting with a battleship, heavy neuts > utility missiles like RHML. Least for solo, small gang you can get away with having a max dps fleet phoon. So there might be some merit there, but still pretty niche. The best i could come up with is a 650mm fit with RHML pushing around 925 dps with small drones (kiting, remember?). T1 pest gets 965dps with just guns and drones.

Now, i'm sure you'll say "but the drone bay man, you're missing the drone bay comparison!". Remember, we're talking about a KITE typhoon, unbonused heavies/sentries are not a good idea to kite with. Most of the time mediums or smalls are the best choice while kiting. Which the pest and pest FI have plenty of bay/bandwidth to make that happen.

As you can see in the image though, the typhoon Fi has to sacrifice slots to make it work even half decently, which reduces speed/agility mods. This brings the Tempest FI to identical agility levels of the phoon FI, and a very negligible speed difference (roughly 50m/s).

How does the Typhoon FI have an additional utility high over a t1 tempest or tempest FI? They all have 2 utility highs and 6 weapon slots. We aren't comparing the typhoon FI to the t1 typhoon.

I've yet to see a good fit that uses both missiles and guns that isn't a polarized fit for structure bashing. Maybe in PVE, but wouldn't it just be better to use a rattle at that point? They're both about the same price. Regardless though, i suppose a point could made for PVE.



People are flying fleet tempests in a fleet role because they can pack 150-200k EHP with 1400's. You cannot do that with a phoon FI. You can also brawl better using a tempest FI than a phoon FI, because of the generous PG of the fleet pest. I would much rather brawl with a RHML typhoon FI than a autocannon typhoon FI or tempest FI though FWIW.

However, triple repped 1800dps tank tempest FI is fun under the right conditions. Again, something the phoon FI simply cannot due because of its PG limitations.



How did you come to that conclusion? Battleship a/c's are great, they just suffer from being a BS turret which doesn't jive well in the current meta. But as someone who flies tempests and typhoons frequently, its still quite viable to fly pests in a kite configuration thanks to dual heavy neuts and ample grid to fit everything i need. Plus having 960+ dps on tap that shoots out to 42km. So you'll need to elaborate on large a/c's being bad, because my experience shows that they are far from it. Mach's are one of the best BS in the game for autocannon kiting. T1 pest isn't far behind either imo.

To clarify, i never said to remove the gun slots, i simply said to remove the gun bonus in favor of something that isn't outperformed by other ships in the same class/faction.



Thats just it though, its not effective as a gun platform, its a gimmick. The T1 pest and Pest FI are arguably better gun platforms for similar roles. Even the T1 pest setup as max dps gets similar numbers as typhoon FI with heavy drones and guns.

Malcanis have a point on this AC,s are a problem after all gun side of ship is not being used not because ppl are missile fans but rather coz missiles work AC do not.

Not as a singular bonus they are simply overnerfed by ccp

T1 pest works because 6 guns 7.5 rof and 5 dmg

Fl pest works because 6 guns 5 rof and 5 dmg( not really it works due to faction class tank it need buff like t1 pest got all faction ships got that type of tank but non bar Ftempest was left to rot over a decade of updating other faction ships regularly and radically )

Fl phoon don't work because 6 guns 7.5 rof is single dmg buff and AC will never work like that not to mention no dmg bonus means no alpha in both AC and Arty fits(yes it matters in both).

But all that aside and wishful thinking aside Floon will never be viable gun platform because buffing gun side adding dual bonuses to it will not happen giving 10% rof bonus will not happen and adding pg to fit gun side properly will not happen either just because all that spare pg would make missile fits stupidly OP 3ple plate 3ple reps OPness.

THERE IS NO GOD DAMN SYNERGY among weapon systems no amount of "we wanted to make this ship WHATEVER" matters further more any buff to AC's will step on tempest /fleet tempest /maelstrom <= this is a reason alone to stop with a bullcrap.

NO its not ok to leave it just BECAUSE.

YES it can be swapped to pure missile and or drone tweaks large drone bandwidth is one thing(eft warfare) bonus-ed drones are quite another.

As Stitch mentions RHML Floon is ok torp or cruise not so much add attempt to augment drone side of a ship(you know to start using that magical wonderland eft number) by a bit and all of a sudden things do not look so great.