These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Solidarity PLEX - or - What kind of EVE do we want to live in?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
zluq zabaa
Inhumanum Legionis
#1 - 2016-03-02 12:21:07 UTC
One of the most common posts in the recent downtime-threads was: "I payed, so I want it to work right naooo (+ include random rant here)". I found this, while partly understandable, an extremely unfriendly behaviour towards the people who work for CCP. It's a sad reality of the service sector that people who pay some kind of money, as little as it might be, suddenly feel as if - for once in their lifetime - they're little kings and queens and have the right to treat others like their subordinates. I never quite decided wether I find this more funny, as in embarassing for the people who behave this way or plain bad, because it can not feel good to hear that too often (and not even being allowed to smack back, because it is your job to deal with assholes).

Well anyway, this whole "i pay, i play" thing got me thinking about social inequality in EVE.

A thing I would like everyone to consider is real-life economics. I've had some EVE friends leaving the game because they couldn't afford to pay for it anymore, because they live and work in parts of the world that are shaken by financial crises to an extent ungraspable for most of the playerbase. While 10 bucks a month equals two cappucinos for one, it means food for a week for the other. Please keep that in mind: If you stomp people into the ground, some might just stay there and experience the same thing they experience in their everyday life: being on the wrong side of an unjust economical system.

I for my part hate the idea that people have to quit the game because they can't afford to pay the subscription anymore, while others have no problem to pay for several accounts and buy the occasional PLEX on top of that. EVE reflects the real world in many ways, but for the sake of the "new" in New Eden, I'd like to see people without much income to actually have a chance to be a part of it. I know it's no-ones personal fault to have more money, but vice versa it isn't anyones personal fault to have less. If you're well-off and thinking now "I've made it with hard work, others can make it to", please check the reality. Hard work alone doesn't make people more wealthy, having a good head-start (money, education, country, social class) does.

So here is, what I would like to see: some solidarity beyond the notions of standing, corp, alliance and all that.*
Let us create a pool of people who are willing to give a one-time or regular contribution in the form of ISK - any amount really - to see if we can fund some peoples account, who can't afford it (anymore).

Hence, a scratch of a roadmap:
1. Find a community-trusted player who is willing to take in contributions
2. Work out criteria to be eligble to get a Solidarity PLEX
3. Set up control mechanisms to ensure against misuse, scams and so forth (possibly ask CCP to support on this one)
4. Work out an easy way to apply for solidarity
5. Same for an easy way to decide

Any ideas? Anyone likes to join?

* I know, this goes against everything many people teached themselves in EVE. Why should you help people who might later shoot down your ship, who might at another point cross your plans? Well, because then you need to use your brains as well instead of your real life advantage in the form of money.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#2 - 2016-03-02 12:25:25 UTC
tl;dr - wants rich people to pay for poor people to play eve

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lina Sovereign
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-03-02 12:31:25 UTC
Ahahah.. very funny.

It's life, no money no funny. You don't have money? Get your fingers out of your a** and do something of your life.

And yes, I pay so I can protest if i'm unhappy... P (I love that btw)
Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-03-02 12:31:56 UTC
zluq zabaa wrote:
Hence, a scratch of a roadmap:
1. Find a community-trusted player who is willing to take in contributions

And so the whole idea come to ruin right from step #1.

Evelopedia via Wayback Machine
Aviola von Yodalgut
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-03-02 12:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Aviola von Yodalgut
zluq zabaa wrote:



So here is, what I would like to see: some solidarity beyond the notions of standing, corp, alliance and all that.*
Let us create a pool of people who are willing to give a one-time or regular contribution in the form of ISK - any amount really - to see if we can fund some peoples account, who can't afford it (anymore).

Hence, a scratch of a roadmap:
1. Find a community-trusted player who is willing to take in contributions
2. Work out criteria to be eligble to get a Solidarity PLEX
3. Set up control mechanisms to ensure against misuse, scams and so forth (possibly ask CCP to support on this one)
4. Work out an easy way to apply for solidarity
5. Same for an easy way to decide

Any ideas? Anyone likes to join?

* I know, this goes against everything many people teached themselves in EVE. Why should you help people who might later shoot down your ship, who might at another point cross your plans? Well, because then you need to use your brains as well instead of your real life advantage in the form of money.



It won't work.

There are many people that will try to gain when they have no right to.

Just look at all the false insurance claims, some people even try to claim cash backs from companies even when they haven't purchased anything.

So how will you know who is actually deserving (I know 'deserving is highly debateable, but for arguments sake lets go with it) from those that would apply. How would you check? It's just not practical.

But if you have a friend that can't play nothing stopping you giving them a PLEX.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#6 - 2016-03-02 12:46:00 UTC
By the time someone is so lacking in enthusiasm that they cannot pay for their account either by grinding or paying the monthly fee, giving them a PLEX is pointless. They will just continue with the same lack of enthusiasm and quit once that month is up. I've donated PLEX to several friends in the past and it always goes the same way.
Raith Crimson
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-03-02 12:57:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Raith Crimson
I think the game is very enjoyable on every level.

Cant afford to play with the big dogs ? Then engage with some of the less expensive content.

Edit: Pro Tip:- Stop paying for your game play with PLEX. Just put up a 1 year subscription and use your isk in the game for the game instead. You'll enjoy yourself much more. Trust me ilearned the hard way. Not going back to plexing no way no how. Plexing is pure self en-slavement.

my ideas are my own and have no reflection on the ideas of my current corp / alliance.

excuse my terrible typing.
zluq zabaa
Inhumanum Legionis
#8 - 2016-03-02 16:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: zluq zabaa
Quote:
And yes, I pay so I can protest if i'm unhappy... P (I love that btw)

Well, there is not one thing I pay for with the main motivation being that I can harass people if things don't always work out. But yeah, if that is your thing, why not. Which kind of implies you don't give much about the game itself and you'll just look for little things to clinge on, so you can "protest". Btw, do you pay taxes? Do you protest about everything you don't like, that is somehow connected to the use of said taxes?

(I personally think that CCP is a shining example how game development should be embedded within the community. To honour that I'd say we as players need to show a certain kind of responsibility towards the brave people who show their faces and step forward saying: I'm open to your critique. You can always prove me wrong by making Youtube videos of yourself in which you speak out your rants, so that you show the same kind of courage that CCP Devs are showing. ;) )

Quote:
Cant afford to play with the big dogs ? Then engage with some of the less expensive content.

Raith Crimson I agree with what you say about plexing. That's exactly the point why people who can't afford to pay for the game shouldn't automatically be regarded to plex for it. I mean, if you could pay for it, but decide not to, that's a different story. And I admit it will be difficult to find that criteria: who could afford it, but lacks motivation (as Demolishar wrote - btw. I've seen similar things as you describe) - who would like to afford it, but seriously can't bring up the 120 bucks per year. I say, let's help those guys out, if we can. Let's each give 10M ISK a month, so we can keep some fellows around. In the end it will create more content for everyone.

Quote:
So how will you know who is actually deserving (I know 'deserving is highly debateable, but for arguments sake lets go with it) from those that would apply. How would you check? It's just not practical.

I'm not 100% sure, that's why I asked for ideas. My guess was a mixture of several criteria, something like: has been active for a certain amount of time + shares api (e.g. check if they have billions and billions in assets which they could sell a part of) + help of CCP (similar to CSM background checks) + possibly something like activity evaluation (do they actually do stuff in eve or just rotate their ships all day in the station). What do you think? If CCP would allow it, we could even transform PLEX into time for another player, so that there is no option to try scamming to sell that PLEX.

Quote:
And so the whole idea come to ruin right from step #1.

Lol yeah. Guessed so. Isn't there this Chribba guy that everyone seems to know? Obviously the person getting the ISK wouldn't be included in the decision who gets it.

Quote:
tl;dr - wants rich people to pay for poor people to play eve

Thanks mate, good shortening skills, although not totally accurate in this case. Anyway since you're probably rather rich in-game, maybe you could give a tiny amount once in a while. For 200% of the average amount you might get to even include the "FETID is recruiting" thingy as an advertisement. How bout that eh?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#9 - 2016-03-02 16:19:03 UTC
EVE is a game. Games are a luxury. Luxuries are, by definition, not essential to sustaining life.




That's a no from me, by the way.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Paranoid Loyd
#10 - 2016-03-02 16:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
The game costs less than $1/day to play. If your financial situation is any where near not being able to afford that, you shouldn't be spending your time playing video games.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#11 - 2016-03-02 16:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Social Inequality? I could have sworn I typed https://forums.eveonline.com/ a second ago. But some how by the looks of this thread, I ended up at MSNBC....

What kind of EVE do I want to live in? The one where people figure out things for themselves and decide if they like it or not, all the while remembering it's a game (ie something they don't have to do) and leaving their real life political BS and whining about 'injustice' at the door.
Josef Djugashvilis
#12 - 2016-03-02 16:35:12 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
EVE is a game. Games are a luxury. Luxuries are, by definition, not essential to sustaining life.




That's a no from me, by the way.


I suspect that some players will be surprised to find that the game is not essential to sustaining life Smile

This is not a signature.
Elinarien
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-03-02 16:47:23 UTC
If I were so poor that £10 was make or break between eating or not, then not being able to pay to play a computer game would be the last of my worries. Indeed I find it rather patronising considering the player in question would need to fund a reasonably up to date computer & internet connection and have the spare time in order to play.

Perhaps there are other first world problems the OP can worry about.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#14 - 2016-03-02 16:51:05 UTC
zluq zabaa wrote:
Thanks mate, good shortening skills, although not totally accurate in this case. Anyway since you're probably rather rich in-game, maybe you could give a tiny amount once in a while. For 200% of the average amount you might get to even include the "FETID is recruiting" thingy as an advertisement. How bout that eh?


im far from rich but ill happily give isk to people who refer possible recruits over to me Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#15 - 2016-03-02 16:57:29 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
zluq zabaa wrote:
Thanks mate, good shortening skills, although not totally accurate in this case. Anyway since you're probably rather rich in-game, maybe you could give a tiny amount once in a while. For 200% of the average amount you might get to even include the "FETID is recruiting" thingy as an advertisement. How bout that eh?


im far from rich but ill happily give isk to people who refer possible recruits over to me Cool




I would like to refer myself to FETID, can I get a bonus? IdeaBig smile

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Jenshae Chiroptera
#16 - 2016-03-02 17:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenn aSide wrote:
... and leaving their real life political BS and whining about 'injustice' at the door.
Then stay off the forums, minimise local or hide the chat part of it and make your own closed little group of friends.
I would rather not have someone like you trying to dictate what we can talk about.
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
The game costs less than $1/day to play. If your financial situation is any where near not being able to afford that, you shouldn't be spending your time playing video games.

10.00 GBP = 219.605 ZAR
British Pound ↔ South African Rand

I will readily admit that I don't know the value of that any more as I don't live there any longer.
However, at one point, I was earning R 5 000 a month, spending some 2 000+ on renting a two bed room house, 150-200 a week on groceries and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. R 500 on a cell phone connection to the Internet and then looking at another week of groceries for a game subscription.
This all looks fine as a budget, until you throw in all those hidden costs to life, such as going to a doctor or dentist, new pair of glasses, your medical insurance, paying the local armed security extortion rackets and so forth.

The exchange rate can be extremely significant even to a comfortable life and job.

As for trusted players, there are some like Chribba but they probably don't want all the administration work this would take. Also, when you can't find out who is a spy in EVE, how will you know someone has economic difficulties?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Negative Feedback
#17 - 2016-03-02 17:21:07 UTC
Can I please not get bombarded with all the social inequality crap in the Eve world like I do everywhere else? Can I just have this one little corner of my life where I'm not made to feel guilty about something? Please?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#18 - 2016-03-02 17:31:44 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
... and leaving their real life political BS and whining about 'injustice' at the door.
Then stay off the forums, minimise local or hide the chat part of it and make your own closed little group of friends.
I would rather not have someone like you trying to dictate what we can talk about.


No one said someone can't talk about something. Someone is saying that what you're talking about is stupid.



Quote:

10.00 GBP = 219.605 ZAR
British Pound ↔ South African Rand

I will readily admit that I don't know the value of that any more as I don't live there any longer.
However, at one point, I was earning R 5 000 a month, spending some 2 000+ on renting a two bed room house, 150-200 a week on groceries and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. R 500 on a cell phone connection to the Internet and then looking at another week of groceries for a game subscription.
This all looks fine as a budget, until you throw in all those hidden costs to life, such as going to a doctor or dentist, new pair of glasses, your medical insurance, paying the local armed security extortion rackets and so forth.

The exchange rate can be extremely significant even to a comfortable life and job.

As for trusted players, there are some like Chribba but they probably don't want all the administration work this would take. Also, when you can't find out who is a spy in EVE, how will you know someone has economic difficulties?


A maid.... You can afford a maid but a game is hard to pay for...

Some people are just cracked to all hell.
Lina Sovereign
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-03-02 17:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lina Sovereign
zluq zabaa wrote:
Quote:
And yes, I pay so I can protest if i'm unhappy... P (I love that btw)

Well, there is not one thing I pay for with the main motivation being that I can harass people if things don't always work out. But yeah, if that is your thing, why not. Which kind of implies you don't give much about the game itself and you'll just look for little things to clinge on, so you can "protest". Btw, do you pay taxes? Do you protest about everything you don't like, that is somehow connected to the use of said taxes?


I'm french, ranting / protest is a national sport here, we are the best... :)

Taxes are necessary so I never protest about them.
When we have incompetence (technical and communication), like the one who led us to almost two days of service interruption yeah I protest.
(I'll skip the *mylife* text were I explain I'm an IT Consultant, we don't care.) They did crap... that's all.

zluq zabaa wrote:

(I personally think that CCP is a shining example how game development should be embedded within the community. To honour that I'd say we as players need to show a certain kind of responsibility towards the brave people who show their faces and step forward saying: I'm open to your critique. You can always prove me wrong by making Youtube videos of yourself in which you speak out your rants, so that you show the same kind of courage that CCP Devs are showing. ;) )


Brave ? My god... CCP is paid to do its job and so do the Devs. If you pay me I can manage to do fun Youtube movies. But you'll not like my prices.
Paranoid Loyd
#20 - 2016-03-02 17:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
123Next pageLast page