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Kronos useless in PvE (At a high level)

Author
Maveric7911
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-03-02 03:31:34 UTC
Kronos needs a buff to become useful in PvE at a high level.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-03-02 04:03:58 UTC
not really i even have a guy who uses it in WHs.....

you want to try giving a bit more info
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#3 - 2016-03-02 04:05:11 UTC
I used the Kronos extensively when I lived in Fountain. It worked beautifully.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jas IHUD
SYITNL CREW
#4 - 2016-03-02 04:42:43 UTC
whats ur fit Maveric7911

This account has been put in detention, please contact a GM - O.o What The Hell

Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2016-03-02 05:16:04 UTC
Jas IHUD wrote:
whats ur fit Maveric7911


Blasters asb and heart sinks
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2016-03-02 05:33:15 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Jas IHUD wrote:
whats ur fit Maveric7911


Blasters asb and heart sinks

It's the heart that really counts here. Blink
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#7 - 2016-03-02 06:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
I think at the very worst it's a bit harder to make work for what you want it to do compared to the other three; not as Swiss Army knife as the others people have said. It's still a powerful Marauder from what I have heard, just not as flexible.

Also, confirming that the Kronos' guns fire magical hearts that spread hugs, kisses, and love. The perfect Valentine's gift.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Sigras
Conglomo
#8 - 2016-03-02 09:08:29 UTC
I have no idea what you guys are talking about...

I can fly (and have flown) all 4 marauders, and out to 50 km (the only relevant distance because of the MJD bonus) the Kronos performs the best. My strategy has always been to use the MJD to stay at < 50 km from my opponents and use the massive blaster falloff to take them out before they take me out.

The only problem I can see is that she lacks the damage selection of the Golem and the Vargur, but she does so much more damage it seems irrelevant.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#9 - 2016-03-02 09:13:58 UTC
Maveric7911 wrote:
Kronos needs a buff to become useful in PvE at a high level.


Explain

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Cristl
#10 - 2016-03-02 12:47:47 UTC
There's no feature or idea here.

Take this to ships and modules, where it can be a crappy thread, rather than an appallingly crappy thread.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2016-03-02 13:23:01 UTC
Might want to read this.
Shield PvE Kronos
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-03-02 14:09:46 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I have no idea what you guys are talking about...

I can fly (and have flown) all 4 marauders, and out to 50 km (the only relevant distance because of the MJD bonus) the Kronos performs the best. My strategy has always been to use the MJD to stay at < 50 km from my opponents and use the massive blaster falloff to take them out before they take me out.

The only problem I can see is that she lacks the damage selection of the Golem and the Vargur, but she does so much more damage it seems irrelevant.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm interested in seeing what you do to make blaster Kronos worthwhile. Let me explain....

I have less experience with Marauders than you probably do, but I fly the three turret ones (I hate missiles), choosing the best one for whatever situation I'm in. But when I fly Kronos, I fly rail and I haven't found a worthwhile combination of fit and tactics to make blasters come out over rails.

I'm aware of the massive damage potential of blasters. But for easy comparison, I'm using PYFA to ironically "EFT-warrior" my way through this. Jokes aside, and all things being equal, the blaster Kronos only out-damages the Paladin under 23 kilometers. With Tech II ammo for both, that only jumps to 27km under the most ideal circumstances. Using the same basic tactic with the MJD of keeping red crosses at certain distances, the Paladin has a HUGE engagement envelope compared to the other turret vessels.

To use Blasters, you'd need significantly better sub-light speed to get targets in your ideal engagement envelope, so MWD is almost a must (afterburner if not MWD, but preferably MWD). If you're still running MJD, that's two of your four mids right off the bat. And the ranges I quoted were assuming two range-scripted tracking computers. You can do that (and I did for a little while, actually trying to make blasters work better for me), but then you have no cap booster. And if stuff hits the fan (and Guristas can be powerful little buggers and stuff can definitely hit the fan with them), then you'll need to run heavy reps and you can cap out fast. You can do it without a cap booster, but it's a gamble I don't think I'd want to take in case I have to bastion (I run rail Kronos and never needed cap booster or bastion, but it's there just in case). Drop the MWD for cap booster? Again, you could, but if something is just outside your preferred engagement range, you would dramatically overshoot if you MJD (if something is way outside your engagement range, obviously the MJD would get you much closer).

It just seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth, and the time you'd be positioning with blasters would be better spent nailing enemies from afar with rails and being on your merry way. So what am I not seeing or have not considered that makes blasters awesome?
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#13 - 2016-03-02 18:49:17 UTC
Fail thread a side i will agree with poster above I wanted and try to make blaster Kronos viable but settled for rails instead at the end of a day it performs better.

However if you're doing pve content that always spawns close/same space like anom and stuff I can see blastor Kronos work.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-03-02 19:58:46 UTC
I use a blaster Kronos. Never had any issues. Target at more than 30km? Use null. Still has more damage than rail ammo, and hits almost out to 60km with my skills. Targets under 30km? Switch to void. I don't know what everyone else is doing, but it works for me. Below is my fit. It could be blinged a bit to be even better.

Seriously, if I'm going not going to use Bastion, and I want to use rails; then I mine as well fly a Vindicator.

[Kronos, Kronos fit]

Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer

Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II

Bastion Module I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


Hammerhead II x5


Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-4
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-3
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Systems Operation EO-605
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Management EM-805
Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905
Zainou 'Deadeye' Large Hybrid Turret LH-1005
Sigras
Conglomo
#15 - 2016-03-02 22:07:41 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I have no idea what you guys are talking about...

I can fly (and have flown) all 4 marauders, and out to 50 km (the only relevant distance because of the MJD bonus) the Kronos performs the best. My strategy has always been to use the MJD to stay at < 50 km from my opponents and use the massive blaster falloff to take them out before they take me out.

The only problem I can see is that she lacks the damage selection of the Golem and the Vargur, but she does so much more damage it seems irrelevant.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm interested in seeing what you do to make blaster Kronos worthwhile. Let me explain....

I have less experience with Marauders than you probably do, but I fly the three turret ones (I hate missiles), choosing the best one for whatever situation I'm in. But when I fly Kronos, I fly rail and I haven't found a worthwhile combination of fit and tactics to make blasters come out over rails.

I'm aware of the massive damage potential of blasters. But for easy comparison, I'm using PYFA to ironically "EFT-warrior" my way through this. Jokes aside, and all things being equal, the blaster Kronos only out-damages the Paladin under 23 kilometers. With Tech II ammo for both, that only jumps to 27km under the most ideal circumstances. Using the same basic tactic with the MJD of keeping red crosses at certain distances, the Paladin has a HUGE engagement envelope compared to the other turret vessels.

To use Blasters, you'd need significantly better sub-light speed to get targets in your ideal engagement envelope, so MWD is almost a must (afterburner if not MWD, but preferably MWD). If you're still running MJD, that's two of your four mids right off the bat. And the ranges I quoted were assuming two range-scripted tracking computers. You can do that (and I did for a little while, actually trying to make blasters work better for me), but then you have no cap booster. And if stuff hits the fan (and Guristas can be powerful little buggers and stuff can definitely hit the fan with them), then you'll need to run heavy reps and you can cap out fast. You can do it without a cap booster, but it's a gamble I don't think I'd want to take in case I have to bastion (I run rail Kronos and never needed cap booster or bastion, but it's there just in case). Drop the MWD for cap booster? Again, you could, but if something is just outside your preferred engagement range, you would dramatically overshoot if you MJD (if something is way outside your engagement range, obviously the MJD would get you much closer).

It just seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth, and the time you'd be positioning with blasters would be better spent nailing enemies from afar with rails and being on your merry way. So what am I not seeing or have not considered that makes blasters awesome?

One single word: Damage

Blasters do so much more damage than rails that even at 40 km blasters with null still out damage rails with javelin. Generally what I do when i get into a complex is see if the enemies are > 50 km away, If so, I MJD over to them. While waiting for my MJD i calculate how far from the enemy i'll end up, and I load the correct type of ammo (void if < 21 km null otherwise).

Yes, at ranges > 27 km the pulse pally is better, but anything less than that and the kronos out damages it, and most of my engagements happen at < 27 km
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#16 - 2016-03-03 00:39:18 UTC
If only we something like a Ships and Modules section in the forums..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-03-03 03:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Sigras wrote:
I have no idea what you guys are talking about...

I can fly (and have flown) all 4 marauders, and out to 50 km (the only relevant distance because of the MJD bonus) the Kronos performs the best. My strategy has always been to use the MJD to stay at < 50 km from my opponents and use the massive blaster falloff to take them out before they take me out.

The only problem I can see is that she lacks the damage selection of the Golem and the Vargur, but she does so much more damage it seems irrelevant.


I disagree..
In PVE, I would say the Golem is the best.

Using Cruise missiles, you get 1k dps at max targeting range (118km), with good application.

[Golem, Cruise]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Small Tractor Beam II
Bastion Module I

Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5
Warden II x1

Implants
CM-605
GP-805
TN-905
RL-1005


1037 DPS with implants
Boosts for 22% shield HP in one cycle while in bastion
Cap booster for when I forget to turn off my damn shield booster (all the time)
Triangulate gate on MJD out, then MJD back in to gate... 2 min 30 sec to reach gate regardless of distance.
118km targeting range
Damage selection based on mission


Too easy...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-03-03 04:26:24 UTC
ok, after looking at it, the kronos is a bit lackluster in PVE compared to the other 3, due to the range limitations of blasters.

HOWEVER, you have to do some factoring here.
The Golem sucks with torps due to range limitations and torps being sooo slow...
Paladin is a bit of a happy middle ground between the ranges and damage of pulse and beam; However, it only has Em/therm dps, which is quite limited.
Vargur is a decent ship, but all of it's damage is done deep into falloff, as well as having significantly less dps if it wishes to have damage selection.

Now, back on the Kronos, yes it does appear to be a bit lackluster.
I will say though, this is not the fault of the Kronos.
This is the fault of how Marauders were designed with Bastion.

They were designed to be immobile in order to reach full efficiency.
This is counter-intuitive to the design philosophy behind blasters, IE in your face and personal.

Perhaps the Marauders and bastion need to be re-evaluated so that they can be balanced in a way that takes optimal control over their weapon systems.

Golem is fine how it is.
Paladin needs a tracking bonus as opposed to a optimal bonus.
Kronos needs a mobility bonus as opposed to optimal/falloff, with perhaps a web range/power bonus in exchange for the ewar immunity bonus (give is high sensor strength)
Vargur... Well, i'm not too familiar with ACs and arty, so that's up to someone else.

Basically, CCP designed a module to fix the issues of Marauders without having to actually fix Marauders, and instead ended up with a module that's really only good for 1 ship (Golem).
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2016-03-03 05:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Khan Wrenth
Joe Risalo wrote:
Perhaps the Marauders and bastion need to be re-evaluated so that they can be balanced in a way that takes optimal control over their weapon systems.

Golem is fine how it is.
Paladin needs a tracking bonus as opposed to a optimal bonus.
Kronos needs a mobility bonus as opposed to optimal/falloff, with perhaps a web range/power bonus in exchange for the ewar immunity bonus (give is high sensor strength)
Vargur... Well, i'm not too familiar with ACs and arty, so that's up to someone else.

Basically, CCP designed a module to fix the issues of Marauders without having to actually fix Marauders, and instead ended up with a module that's really only good for 1 ship (Golem).

Don't touch my Paladin.

Paladin is absolutely perfect precisely where it is, stat and bonus-wise. It doesn't need a tracking bonus, since that's precisely what optimal does for you anyway if you fly your ship correctly. Optimal is the reason I can do over 1k DPS out to 60km (or 70km if I'm feeling adventurous) with instant application because turrets. Optimal gives you tracking at range while allowing you to use higher-damage ammo. Optimal is awesome. If the Paladin didn't have an optimal bonus, I just wouldn't fly it.

Unless you're just talking about how bastion interacts with each vessel? I have almost never activated bastion, so if you want to tweak that, okay, but I don't think you can program a single module to do different things depending on which vessel it's operating on.

But don't touch my Paladin's innate stats or bonuses

Anyway, I can see where the problem comes in with the Kronos and CCP's dilemma with it. In the ship line, Caldari has optimal, Gallente has damage. That creates problems on the battleship level where your lack of mobility and tracking really necessitate optimal over almost everything else (see: Paladin shining like the golden, amazing ship that it is). But since they wouldn't want two hybrid marauders since that would mean everyone would use Caldari over Gallente, period. Because as we've seen in this and countless other threads, your high damage at knife range doesn't mean squat when you can do good or great damage across the grid. So their way to split the difference was to give Gallente a ton of falloff (a trait seen in a few of their line ships), so they'd have some reach with either rails or blasters.

With the way blasters and their ammo goes, that means your ammo choice doesn't do much to alter your range, so you'd almost always use the high-damage stuff. With rails, it helps cushion the difference, but ammo selection is more important. You can still get good range out of a rail Kronos, even with Antimatter (again, ideally around 65km or lower, kinda the same range as beam Paladin before you need to start shifting ammo types for more range on both vessels).

So, the Kronos ended up with a falloff bonus to help give it reach, but it's still not optimal (pun not intended) for a vessel of that size.

The Vargur seems to have ended up in the same place, albeit from a different route. Because of the nature of how artillery and autocannons are built, artillery is never really optimal for PvE. High alpha means you're constantly going to overkill your targets, while your DPS needed to clear anything more than one guy is extremely low. So, autocannons all the way. This means the Vargur is another brawling battleship, in a game where large weapons still don't track well unless at range and large weapons have a lot of range to play with. But autocannons always play in falloff, so CCP was backed into a corner to buff the tracking and falloff of another large vessel.

So you end up with two brawling battleships (already not an ideal situation) who have a special ability that completely immobilizes them.

Verses, the Golem (taking your word on this, I don't fly it because I hate missiles) and the Paladin (my favorite ship ever), that are built with bonuses and weapon systems that excel at range, using large weapons that do best at range, and use a special ability that immobilizes them but that isn't a problem for them, plus the tidbit of extra range helps.

That's our problem. Bastion dramatically helps the two battleships that are built logically for their size and weapons, but bastion greatly hinders the two brawling vessels.

I suggest a compromise. Create a second version of bastion, and you have to choose which one to mount on your vessel.
-Version one is what we have now, no change.
-Version two removes the repair boost and changes it out so the marauder is no longer immobile - can move and afterburn and MWD at will (but still can't warp out, like you're warp disrupted). And instead of the 25% optimal/falloff range bonus, you get 50% falloff.


On a side note, it'd be nice to have a tech II version of bastion for those of us who trained marauders to 5. Maybe reduced mobility instead of complete immobility? Just something, a little something....
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2016-03-03 11:03:34 UTC
Maveric7911 wrote:
Kronos needs a buff to become useful in PvE at a high level.


Nope, you need to learn to fly the ship.

-1
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